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Switch to Forum Live View Analytic thinking threatens beliefs
2 years ago  ::  May 02, 2012 - 3:12PM #71
Buggsy
Posts: 4,732

May 2, 2012 -- 2:18PM, SeraphimR wrote:


Comfort and consolation.  That our life is not meaningless.  That we are not ineluctably caught in the jaws of a machine of blind pitiless indifference.



hmmm


You're saying that we are in fact all caught up in the jaws of a machine of blind pitiless indifference . . . with an occassional miracle thrown in to comfort us. 


But why are these miracles - whatever they are - comforting?  Let's say someone in Uganda is miraculously cured of cancer.  How does that comfort people in Frankfurt? or Barcelona?  They wouldn't even hear about it.  Wouldn't the real miracle be to eliminate cancer completely from the human population - now that would be comforting to everyone.


A couple posts ago you said throwing a football is a miracle because it's matter conforming to will.  How does that console anyone - even the person who threw the football?


My Ford Fusion is a machine of blind pitiless indifference.  I don't need to be comforted because I know that.  The Earth revolves around the Sun - why do I need comfort?

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2 years ago  ::  May 02, 2012 - 3:18PM #72
Buggsy
Posts: 4,732

Where is this blind pitiless machine of indifference?  That's an odd way to describe the world.  I look around and see wonderous forests - alive and vibrant and oceans full of wildlife.  The sky is alive with birds, colours and it changes every second. There's life all around us and it's all connected.  I don't see a blind pitiless machine of indiffeence and if I did I would be judging out of a selfish ego that the world isn't serving my interests or giving me console. 

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2 years ago  ::  May 02, 2012 - 6:26PM #73
SeraphimR
Posts: 9,337

May 2, 2012 -- 3:18PM, Buggsy wrote:


Where is this blind pitiless machine of indifference?  That's an odd way to describe the world.  I look around and see wonderous forests - alive and vibrant and oceans full of wildlife.  The sky is alive with birds, colours and it changes every second. There's life all around us and it's all connected.  I don't see a blind pitiless machine of indiffeence and if I did I would be judging out of a selfish ego that the world isn't serving my interests or giving me console. 




It is the one Richard Dawkins sees:


"The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing but blind pitiless indifference."




People with a mission to save the earth want the earth to seem worse than it is so their mission will look more important.


P.J. O'Rourke
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2 years ago  ::  May 02, 2012 - 6:35PM #74
SeraphimR
Posts: 9,337

May 2, 2012 -- 3:12PM, Buggsy wrote:


May 2, 2012 -- 2:18PM, SeraphimR wrote:


Comfort and consolation.  That our life is not meaningless.  That we are not ineluctably caught in the jaws of a machine of blind pitiless indifference.



hmmm


You're saying that we are in fact all caught up in the jaws of a machine of blind pitiless indifference . . . with an occassional miracle thrown in to comfort us. 


But why are these miracles - whatever they are - comforting?  Let's say someone in Uganda is miraculously cured of cancer.  How does that comfort people in Frankfurt? or Barcelona?  They wouldn't even hear about it.  Wouldn't the real miracle be to eliminate cancer completely from the human population - now that would be comforting to everyone.


A couple posts ago you said throwing a football is a miracle because it's matter conforming to will.  How does that console anyone - even the person who threw the football?


My Ford Fusion is a machine of blind pitiless indifference.  I don't need to be comforted because I know that.  The Earth revolves around the Sun - why do I need comfort?




Perhaps you don't need comfort. 


It seems that you despise people who do (in your subsequent post), considering them selfish.


Nice guy.




People with a mission to save the earth want the earth to seem worse than it is so their mission will look more important.


P.J. O'Rourke
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2 years ago  ::  May 02, 2012 - 8:23PM #75
Buggsy
Posts: 4,732

May 2, 2012 -- 6:26PM, SeraphimR wrote:


It is the one Richard Dawkins sees:


"The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing but blind pitiless indifference."



Yeah I know.  Richard Dawkins is pathetic on this.  He doesn't speak for anyone but his funders, his academic peers and himself.  He thinks within a materialistic framework that is extremely limited.

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2 years ago  ::  May 02, 2012 - 8:29PM #76
Buggsy
Posts: 4,732

May 2, 2012 -- 6:35PM, SeraphimR wrote:


It seems that you despise people who do (in your subsequent post), considering them selfish.


Nice guy.



Not at all.  I just see that when you view the world in such negative terms as pitiless and mechanistic that you have to look for comfort somewhere or from someone.  It's an extremely depressing state of affairs.  But if you view the world as positive and in terms of wonder and interconnectedness that that, in itself brings a sense of solace and comfort, in my view.  One comes from the need to be reassured by others and the other comes from inner peace and self-confidence.


Sorry if my previous posts weren't clear

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2 years ago  ::  May 02, 2012 - 9:11PM #77
MG42
Posts: 77

Regardless of what one may say about the ineffable Buggsy, he manages to more than hold his own against Beliefnet's own Certified Public Troll, Little Les (no mean feat, by the way).

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2 years ago  ::  May 03, 2012 - 7:01AM #78
LittleLes
Posts: 9,924

May 2, 2012 -- 9:11PM, MG42 wrote:


Regardless of what one may say about the ineffable Buggsy, he manages to more than hold his own against Beliefnet's own Certified Public Troll, Little Les (no mean feat, by the way).




RESPONSE:


Are you serious? Frown


Have you read his posts? Surely Buggy's tactics are familiar to readers.


He begins by challenging the qualifications of those who don't agree with his views. A factious example might be if a poster insists that 2 + 2 = 4 and not 2=2 = 5, and Buggsy is maintaining that 2 +2 =5, Buggsy demands that the writer have a PhD in mathmatics as a credential or his argument  not be considered on its merits.


When his views are challenged, Buggsy fails to offer evidence and regresses to purely ad hominem arguments in which he attacks the poster but avoids the issue and the evidence presented.


Finally,  realizing that he has no credibale evidence to support his position, he simply withdraws from the dialogue. 


 I wish he'd do it sooner and save readers wasted time reading Buggsy's assertions which can't really be supported.


(Of course, "retiring from the field is the best tactic if one cannot really support one's view.)


A current example of these tactics  is his responses to the present "Forgery in Catholicism" thread. Perhaps this is because the evidence is so clear and there's so much of it.


The  Troll who documents. But you can call me "TD"Wink

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2 years ago  ::  May 03, 2012 - 3:22PM #79
Buggsy
Posts: 4,732

Fiction writing is great, you can make up almost anything

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2 years ago  ::  May 03, 2012 - 6:34PM #80
LittleLes
Posts: 9,924

May 3, 2012 -- 3:22PM, Buggsy wrote:


Fiction writing is great, you can make up almost anything




RESPONSE:


Yes. Presenting evidence takes more time and thought.

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