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Switch to Forum Live View How does one come to saving knowledge of Christ?
2 years ago  ::  May 01, 2012 - 7:28AM #61
Adelphe
Posts: 28,705

Apr 30, 2012 -- 10:23PM, stardustpilgrim wrote:


Apr 30, 2012 -- 9:36PM, Adelphe wrote:


Apr 30, 2012 -- 9:26PM, stardustpilgrim wrote:


I agree. However, for some I think their own personal psychology distorts the evident. And this psychology gets formed mostly at a very early age, say previous to the age of six. So, for some, when they are very young and innocent, their unconscious gets loaded up with resistance, they get boxed in by their own neural structure which doesn't let them see God.


Unfair.


What hope do you hold out for these?


sdp




God...


“Is this your son, who you say was born blind? How then does he now see?” His parents answered, “We know that this is our son and that he was born blind. But how he now sees we do not know, nor do we know who opened his eyes. Ask him; he is of age. He will speak for himself.” (His parents said these things because they feared the Jews, for the Jews had already agreed that if anyone should confess Jesus to be Christ, he was to be put out of the synagogue.) Therefore his parents said, “He is of age; ask him.”


So for the second time they called the man who had been blind and said to him, “Give glory to God. We know that this man is a sinner.” He answered, “Whether he is a sinner I do not know. One thing I do know, that though I was blind, now I see.”





So are you saying that God gives everybody at least one miracle in their life to show them that He exists?


sdp




God performs miracles everywhere, every day.


I don't think a personal miracle is necessary, no.


According to Scripture, all human beings know He exists on some level (presumably because He's made us that way.)


It's about whether or not you want to get to know Him.  If so, He'll most definitely find a way.

Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason, my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and I will not retract anything, for to go against conscience would be neither right nor safe.  Here I stand.  I can do no other.  God help me.  Amen.
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2 years ago  ::  May 01, 2012 - 10:26AM #62
Blü
Posts: 24,649

stardust


So, for some, when they are very young and innocent, their unconscious gets loaded up with resistance, they get boxed in by their own neural structure which doesn't let them see God.


Or, for some, when they are very young and innocent, their unconscious gets loaded up with supernatural notions of gods and devils, souls and ghosts, spirits and curses, magicians and zombies, goblins and pixies.


What test shall we use to see whether you're correct, or I am?

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2 years ago  ::  May 01, 2012 - 10:51AM #63
lope
Posts: 10,633

Apr 30, 2012 -- 8:57PM, Blü wrote:


lope


All mature mentaly competent human beings fail to be perfect in their loving actions for others.  They fail to do them perfectly and at some point we all simply fail to do what we should have done.


That's simply part of being alive.  We can't draft a 'perfect society' - we just have to get out there and do it as best we can.  When we fail, we can at least hope to learn.





Yes it is, so why deny the truth of it?  It is not about society being perfect.  It is about the reality of us being imperfect, because we make bad choices.

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2 years ago  ::  May 01, 2012 - 11:14AM #64
Blü
Posts: 24,649

lope


It is about the reality of us being imperfect, because we make bad choices.


You're welcome to assert the wretched nature of man, the pessimism, guilt and blame.


We never taught our kids all that black rubbish.


We taught them to be the best they could and that screwing up is all part of it.  Seems to have worked.

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2 years ago  ::  May 01, 2012 - 2:48PM #65
lope
Posts: 10,633

May 1, 2012 -- 11:14AM, Blü wrote:


lope


It is about the reality of us being imperfect, because we make bad choices.


You're welcome to assert the wretched nature of man, the pessimism, guilt and blame.


We never taught our kids all that black rubbish.


We taught them to be the best they could and that screwing up is all part of it.  Seems to have worked.





But you never taught them they did not make mistakes.  You are not talking to me and my issues.  I did not assert the wretched nature of man, the pessimism, guilt and blame and all that black rukbbish.  I simply asserted our imperfection which is undeniable reality.

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2 years ago  ::  May 01, 2012 - 6:12PM #66
Kwinters
Posts: 20,837

Apr 28, 2012 -- 11:31PM, davelaw40 wrote:


Apr 28, 2012 -- 8:22PM, Kwinters wrote:


Apr 28, 2012 -- 11:08AM, Blü wrote:


Adelphe


Zero repentance, thus...


Repentence of what, exactly?  Not that silly Sin of Adam stuff, surely?




How has the myth of Adam's sin been reconciled with evolutionary theory? When does modern theology view sin as having 'entered the world' I wonder.  With the opposible thumb?  Or the precision grip?




Can't be reconciled. that trial and error process which leads to variation of species? thats sin




???


I don't see how variation can be called a causal consequence of sin.  What about when the pheotype is neutral or advantageous?

Jesus had two dads, and he turned out alright.~ Andy Gussert

“Feminism has fought no wars. It has killed no opponents. It has set up no concentration camps, starved no enemies, practiced no cruelties. Its battles have been for education, for the vote, for better working conditions…for safety on the streets…for child care, for social welfare…for rape crisis centers, women’s refuges, reforms in the law.

If someone says, “Oh, I’m not a feminist,” I ask, “Why, what’s your problem?”

Dale Spender
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2 years ago  ::  May 01, 2012 - 6:13PM #67
Kwinters
Posts: 20,837

Apr 29, 2012 -- 1:03AM, stardustpilgrim wrote:


Apr 28, 2012 -- 8:22PM, Kwinters wrote:


Apr 28, 2012 -- 11:08AM, Blü wrote:


Adelphe


Zero repentance, thus...


Repentence of what, exactly?  Not that silly Sin of Adam stuff, surely?




How has the myth of Adam's sin been reconciled with evolutionary theory? When does modern theology view sin as having 'entered the world' I wonder.  With the opposible thumb?  Or the precision grip?




Genesis one and two. Why do we have two creation stories? Genesis one is the story of evolution. When God got the human body just as he wanted it, we then have Genesis two, God picked out the best two of the bunch, and breathed his own Spirit into "Adam and Eve" and they became the first two living souls. The story goes on from there. (This was about 50,000 years ago. Anthopological science doesn't really have an explanation for the dramatic increase in intelligence of man at about that time (See Spencer Wells, book and PBS TV program, Journey of Man). This explains that.


Quite simple really.


sdp




Eh...no.  This would imply that intelligence is impossible without a sinful nature, and I am pretty sure that things that would be considered a sin before this time period (murder, rape, theft) would have been sins before it as well.

Jesus had two dads, and he turned out alright.~ Andy Gussert

“Feminism has fought no wars. It has killed no opponents. It has set up no concentration camps, starved no enemies, practiced no cruelties. Its battles have been for education, for the vote, for better working conditions…for safety on the streets…for child care, for social welfare…for rape crisis centers, women’s refuges, reforms in the law.

If someone says, “Oh, I’m not a feminist,” I ask, “Why, what’s your problem?”

Dale Spender
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2 years ago  ::  May 01, 2012 - 6:19PM #68
Kwinters
Posts: 20,837

Apr 29, 2012 -- 2:29AM, davelaw40 wrote:


Apr 29, 2012 -- 1:03AM, stardustpilgrim wrote:


Apr 28, 2012 -- 8:22PM, Kwinters wrote:


Apr 28, 2012 -- 11:08AM, Blü wrote:


Adelphe


Zero repentance, thus...


Repentence of what, exactly?  Not that silly Sin of Adam stuff, surely?




How has the myth of Adam's sin been reconciled with evolutionary theory? When does modern theology view sin as having 'entered the world' I wonder.  With the opposible thumb?  Or the precision grip?




Genesis one and two. Why do we have two creation stories? Genesis one is the story of evolution. When God got the human body just as he wanted it, we then have Genesis two, God picked out the best two of the bunch, and breathed his own Spirit into "Adam and Eve" and they became the first two living souls. The story goes on from there. (This was about 50,000 years ago. Anthopological science doesn't really have an explanation for the dramatic increase in intelligence of man at about that time (See Spencer Wells, book and PBS TV program, Journey of Man). This explains that.


Quite simple really.


sdp




no. its common in semetic literature to restate your story


to have a broad form and then a more detailed picture of one aspect-
in poetry its called parallelism




People just make up any ol crap, don't they?


The variation in language and values in the J and E accounts are more parsimoniously explained by two authors in two communites than a story that repeats itself and just happens to use completely unique linguistic features and values.


www.enotes.com/genesis-criticism/genesis


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Documentary_hypoth...


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JE


www.religioustolerance.org/jepd_gen.htm


Jesus had two dads, and he turned out alright.~ Andy Gussert

“Feminism has fought no wars. It has killed no opponents. It has set up no concentration camps, starved no enemies, practiced no cruelties. Its battles have been for education, for the vote, for better working conditions…for safety on the streets…for child care, for social welfare…for rape crisis centers, women’s refuges, reforms in the law.

If someone says, “Oh, I’m not a feminist,” I ask, “Why, what’s your problem?”

Dale Spender
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2 years ago  ::  May 01, 2012 - 6:28PM #69
Kwinters
Posts: 20,837

May 1, 2012 -- 2:48PM, lope wrote:


But you never taught them they did not make mistakes.  You are not talking to me and my issues.  I did not assert the wretched nature of man, the pessimism, guilt and blame and all that black rukbbish.  I simply asserted our imperfection which is undeniable reality.




And what would perfection look like?

Jesus had two dads, and he turned out alright.~ Andy Gussert

“Feminism has fought no wars. It has killed no opponents. It has set up no concentration camps, starved no enemies, practiced no cruelties. Its battles have been for education, for the vote, for better working conditions…for safety on the streets…for child care, for social welfare…for rape crisis centers, women’s refuges, reforms in the law.

If someone says, “Oh, I’m not a feminist,” I ask, “Why, what’s your problem?”

Dale Spender
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2 years ago  ::  May 01, 2012 - 7:56PM #70
stardustpilgrim
Posts: 5,278

...Adelphe......Help!............ Frown .......... Smile


May 1, 2012 -- 10:26AM, Blü wrote:


stardust


So, for some, when they are very young and innocent, their unconscious gets loaded up with resistance, they get boxed in by their own neural structure which doesn't let them see God.


Or, for some, when they are very young and innocent, their unconscious gets loaded up with supernatural notions of gods and devils, souls and ghosts, spirits and curses, magicians and zombies, goblins and pixies.


What test shall we use to see whether you're correct, or I am?





The purpose of words is to convey ideas. When the ideas are grasped, the words are forgotten.
Where can I find a man who has forgotten words? He is the one I would like to talk to.
The Way of Chuang Tzu by Thomas Merton

A map is not the territory.                                                                 Alfred Korzybski

God is that function in the world by reason of which our purposes are directed to ends which in our own consciousness are impartial as to our own interests. He is that element in life in virtue of which judgment stretches beyond facts of existence to values of existence.      Alfred North Whitehead
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