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Switch to Forum Live View Why Theists Won't Think
2 years ago  ::  May 09, 2012 - 6:03PM #221
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,782

May 9, 2012 -- 5:56PM, steven_guy wrote:


May 9, 2012 -- 5:53PM, mytmouse57 wrote:


I've not been impolite. 


Isn't it more evident to conclude the brain facilitates sapience, in much the same way the legs facilitate the will to run? I think so.




Define sapience in this context.




Transcending mere knowledge, or basic intelligence.


 Wisdom, understanding, insight, the ability to create, or invent. 

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2 years ago  ::  May 09, 2012 - 6:20PM #222
steven_guy
Posts: 11,748

May 9, 2012 -- 6:03PM, mytmouse57 wrote:


May 9, 2012 -- 5:56PM, steven_guy wrote:


May 9, 2012 -- 5:53PM, mytmouse57 wrote:


I've not been impolite. 


Isn't it more evident to conclude the brain facilitates sapience, in much the same way the legs facilitate the will to run? I think so.




Define sapience in this context.




Transcending mere knowledge, or basic intelligence.


 Wisdom, understanding, insight, the ability to create, or invent. 




Your point?


I think you have an airy-fairy idea about what human intelligence is all about.

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2 years ago  ::  May 09, 2012 - 6:57PM #223
Ken
Posts: 33,859

May 9, 2012 -- 5:53PM, mytmouse57 wrote:

I've not been impolite.


Yes, you have. You have been rude and condescending.


Isn't it more evident to conclude the brain facilitates sapience, in much the same way the legs facilitate the will to run? I think so.



No, it is not, and you have not proved that it is.

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2 years ago  ::  May 09, 2012 - 7:07PM #224
Fodaoson
Posts: 11,149

May 9, 2012 -- 6:03PM, mytmouse57 wrote:


May 9, 2012 -- 5:56PM, steven_guy wrote:


May 9, 2012 -- 5:53PM, mytmouse57 wrote:


I've not been impolite. 


Isn't it more evident to conclude the brain facilitates sapience, in much the same way the legs facilitate the will to run? I think so.




Define sapience in this context.




Transcending mere knowledge, or basic intelligence.


 Wisdom, understanding, insight, the ability to create, or invent. 




Being sapient requires applying critical thinking and the ability to accept ones possibility of   being wrong and changing an opinion and possibly a behavior.  That is very difficult when it involves religion, anti-religion, faith , non-faith, and personal  beliefs and sometimes politics . 

“I seldom make the mistake of arguing with people for whose opinions I have no respect.” Edward Gibbon
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2 years ago  ::  May 09, 2012 - 8:33PM #225
Blü
Posts: 24,871

mytmouse


The mechansim isn't the cause.


Describe the cause.



There's no good reason to conclude the brain causes sapient thought.


No brain, no thought, isn't a bad reason.  The question is why you think the brain alone is inadequate for "sapient thought" when humans (and very arguably chimps and dolphins and more) are capable of reasoning and sophisticated communication.



There is good reason to conclude it facilitates it.


Fine.  Present the evidence and we can discuss it.


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2 years ago  ::  May 09, 2012 - 8:58PM #226
wohali
Posts: 10,227

Guys, Mytmouse is simply upholding tradition.


Folks used to think that the heart was the seat of the "soul". He's just moved it up............

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2 years ago  ::  May 09, 2012 - 9:26PM #227
F1fan
Posts: 11,316

May 9, 2012 -- 4:41PM, mytmouse57 wrote:

So, basically, you have a huge axe to grinds with Christianity....



No, as I explained, and you ignored, fundamentalist Christianity poses a threat to America, and reasonable people have legitimate complaints.


...which you see as a moral fraud and failure, and you think it's the atheists who are going to save the rest of us from frothing-at-the mouth religious zealots. Of which, you apparently think I am one.



I address your views for what they are.  You are ignoring my comments about them.  Are you unable to properly defend them?

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2 years ago  ::  May 09, 2012 - 9:36PM #228
F1fan
Posts: 11,316

May 9, 2012 -- 5:00PM, mytmouse57 wrote:


I've merely said, human sapience is a proof of God's existance. You disagreed, on the grounds that it is "natrual process, or the result of natural process.



You made a claim and offered no reasoned explanation for it.  I, and others, have gone into great detail to explain how your positiuon is irrational.


I in turn pointed out, "natrural process," or the hardware, so to speak, is the mechanism, not the reason or the cause, IMO



And your opinion isn't educated on the details that show you are wrong, as has been explained to you.


I've also challenged you to perhaps some inward contemplation regarding those things.



Reasoning is the human skill to use if you want to look at data and make a valid conclusion based on it.  That is what I have done.  You have not.  You instead use faith, which is unreliable and biased.


I've never said you have to accept anything. 



If you offered evidence and valid reasoning a reasonable person would be compelled to accept your explanation.  You haven't.

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2 years ago  ::  May 09, 2012 - 9:51PM #229
F1fan
Posts: 11,316

May 9, 2012 -- 5:31PM, mytmouse57 wrote:

 


I wasn't making a direct analogy. More of a metaphor.



It doesn't matter.  Your point fails since you are not trying to explain a real phenomenon, but trying to PROVE your claim through word games.  Notice you are using word games, not evidence. You need evidence to show your idea is true.


Be that as it may, iPods did "evolve" so to speak, from ealier forms that were less efficent in their ability to facilitate/manifest pre-existing music.



But then all humans would think the same thoughts, as programmed.  That doesn't happen.  If you want to look at brains as hardware, fine.  But understand that dog brains function in a way they are capable, just as human brains.  Dog can't create complex thoughts, like humans can.  But even most humans are not as capable as the most intelligent, and can't understand bery complex ideas.  That we can problem solve at a higher capacity than dolphins, and dolphins at a higher capacity than dogs, doesn not tell us something about animals reasoning in your view.  You are trying to make human ability special and divine, for some personal motive, not because it is where the evidence points.  The fact is you have no evidence.  At least admit that.  The rest of us know already, why don't you?

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2 years ago  ::  May 10, 2012 - 12:35PM #230
JCarlin
Posts: 6,539

May 9, 2012 -- 7:07PM, Fodaoson wrote:

Being sapient requires applying critical thinking and the ability to accept ones possibility of   being wrong and changing an opinion and possibly a behavior.  That is very difficult.


It does require extensive training in rational and critical thinking which is a normal part of being nurtured by a sapient parent.  It can be thwarted by doctrinal intimidation. 

J'Carlin
If the shoe doesn't fit, don't cram your foot in it and complain.
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