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2 years ago  ::  May 10, 2012 - 12:54PM #241
lope
Posts: 11,785

May 10, 2012 -- 12:01PM, Bob_the_Lunatic wrote:


May 10, 2012 -- 10:24AM, lope wrote:


May 10, 2012 -- 12:04AM, Bob_the_Lunatic wrote:


By the way lope, what the hell does "more perfect" mean????


Do you realize perfect by its very nature means you cannot improve it.... oh right, you just make up definitions lol.


Well again, there's no such thing as "more perfect", it's an idiot's claim.  Buy a dictionary, look up perfect, you'll find:  


per·fect  (pûrfkt)


adj.
1. Lacking nothing essential to the whole; complete of its nature or kind.

2. Being without defect or blemish: a perfect specimen.

3. Thoroughly skilled or talented in a certain field or area; proficient.

4. Completely suited for a particular purpose or situation: She was the perfect actress for the part.

5.
a. Completely corresponding to a description, standard, or type: a perfect circle; a perfect gentleman.

b. Accurately reproducing an original: a perfect copy of the painting.


6. Complete; thorough; utter: a perfect fool.

7. Pure; undiluted; unmixed: perfect red.

8. Excellent and delightful in all respects: a perfect day.

9. Botany Having both stamens and pistils in the same flower; monoclinous.

10. Grammar Of, relating to, or constituting a verb form expressing action completed prior to a fixed point of reference in time.

11. Music Designating the three basic intervals of the octave, fourth, and fifth.


n.
1. Grammar The perfect tense.

2. A verb or verb form in the perfect tense.


tr.v. (pr-fkt) per·fect·edper·fect·ingper·fects
To bring to perfection or completion.





SO... which one suggests it can allow further improvement?  Perfect is a static state-it cannot change, and if it does, it could only become LESS THAN PERFECT.  Perfect, by its nature cannot have degrees, period.  Do you have any real arguments based on reality-like real definitions, reality, logic?





Are you arguing that this world is perfect?  I am not.




I don't see the point in discussing what world is/could be perfect until you jump to an accepted definition of the word, "perfect".  At present, in using the phrase "more perfect", it is clear you do not understand the word and discussing its application would be a waste of time.





Too dumb to discuss.  I have no issue on the defintion of perfect.

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2 years ago  ::  May 10, 2012 - 12:57PM #242
lope
Posts: 11,785

May 10, 2012 -- 11:59AM, Bob_the_Lunatic wrote:


May 10, 2012 -- 10:21AM, lope wrote:


May 9, 2012 -- 11:54PM, Bob_the_Lunatic wrote:


May 8, 2012 -- 11:17AM, lope wrote:


May 7, 2012 -- 7:14PM, Bob_the_Lunatic wrote:


May 7, 2012 -- 4:56PM, lope wrote:


May 7, 2012 -- 3:23PM, Bob_the_Lunatic wrote:


May 7, 2012 -- 11:05AM, lope wrote:


May 6, 2012 -- 9:24PM, Bob_the_Lunatic wrote:


May 6, 2012 -- 7:46PM, lope wrote:


May 4, 2012 -- 3:32PM, Bob_the_Lunatic wrote:


May 4, 2012 -- 2:35PM, lope wrote:


May 4, 2012 -- 2:31PM, Bob_the_Lunatic wrote:


May 4, 2012 -- 2:14PM, lope wrote:


May 4, 2012 -- 12:48PM, Bob_the_Lunatic wrote:


May 4, 2012 -- 10:09AM, lope wrote:


May 3, 2012 -- 7:31PM, Bob_the_Lunatic wrote:


One thing is for sure folks... with christians such as this, there is no question that the christian heaven is a place to avoid, real or false, assuming it is packed with such superior folks.  





Smart choice--always chose oblivion over life.




No, the correct statement is:  "Always choose equality over tyranny."





I cannot see any meaning there.




Of course not, you are christian.





I suspect that is not the problem.  Perhaps the problem is, there is no meaning there.




The meaning is obvious and true, unless blinded by a lowly teaching that prevents one from seeing reality.





Your meaning is not obvious and my theology is not preventing me from seeing reality if you presented a logical reality.




I present nothing-it presents itself.  You are the one trying to escape it and looking for an EASIER place to live; as I said, "cowardice", and nothing fancier than that.


I've also shown how the theology cages the mind from even looking... much less finding-so you actually proved my point with your avoidance and inability to understand such a simple thing...





I think you are believing in things that do not exist--as for example the inability of a human being to enjoy this life and look forward to the next.




That's not what I've said.  I've said that if you believe in a better life elsewhere than you cannot believe that happiness in this life is anything more than "limited" and "less" by definition.  And that is not a belief, it is basic logic.





Of course this life is not perfect and if the next one is perfect this one is less than that one.  What is the point of dwelling on that?  If you do not believe in a more perfect life after this one you still can recongize the limitations of this one.




Then it's precisely as I said.  And all your arguments are rhetoric, as you cannot have it both ways.  And I don't dwell on this life-christians ignore the true value of it-by the very nature of the theory that it is limited compared to their afterworld.  And no, I see no limitations on this life.  The only limitations that exist are those you've chosen to chain your mind with via christian theory of a "better world" elsewhere.  I've read your book, you haven't read mine-so there's no logic in you assuming to understand, nor feign interest in my outlook on this or really any theological issue, now is there.





If you see no limitations in this life, you are not able to see reality.  Part of the reality you are not seeing is the ability of Christians to believe in a better hereafter and fully enjoy this one.  I think Christians and people who believe in a destiny other than oblivion do enjoy this life more than people who do not believe in a destiny other than oblivion, on average.




You argue in circles, with no static definitions.  You said the next word is "better", thus you define THIS WORLD as limited.  To pretend otherwise, is just dishonest.  Again, this is precisely what we call "moving the cheese", you define it, then back up and change the meaning.  If you cannot pick a meaning and stay with it, you've forfeited.  These two ideas "This world is not limited" and "the next world is BETTER" are mutually exclusive, you cannot have both... unless as I said, you're just a liar.





You might try reading what I wrote.  I have never said this world is not limited.  I have consistently said this world is less than perfect.





Then good, we're in agreement:  This world is limited from the christian point of view.  To achieve unlimited potential-the christian must be reborn elsewhere in a land called "Heaven".  Which brings us full circle to my original point:  The christian sees a limit to happiness in this world, which means their ability to experience it is limited, IF they are wrong.  (They are.)





Too dumb to discuss.  This world is not perfect. We are not perfect.  That is not a Christian point of view.  That is just reallity.  That reality does not result in Christians being less happy.  It is nonsense to think it does.

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2 years ago  ::  May 13, 2012 - 10:31AM #243
Bob_the_Lunatic
Posts: 3,458

May 10, 2012 -- 12:57PM, lope wrote:


May 10, 2012 -- 11:59AM, Bob_the_Lunatic wrote:


May 10, 2012 -- 10:21AM, lope wrote:


May 9, 2012 -- 11:54PM, Bob_the_Lunatic wrote:


May 8, 2012 -- 11:17AM, lope wrote:


May 7, 2012 -- 7:14PM, Bob_the_Lunatic wrote:


May 7, 2012 -- 4:56PM, lope wrote:


May 7, 2012 -- 3:23PM, Bob_the_Lunatic wrote:


May 7, 2012 -- 11:05AM, lope wrote:


May 6, 2012 -- 9:24PM, Bob_the_Lunatic wrote:


May 6, 2012 -- 7:46PM, lope wrote:


May 4, 2012 -- 3:32PM, Bob_the_Lunatic wrote:


May 4, 2012 -- 2:35PM, lope wrote:


May 4, 2012 -- 2:31PM, Bob_the_Lunatic wrote:


May 4, 2012 -- 2:14PM, lope wrote:


May 4, 2012 -- 12:48PM, Bob_the_Lunatic wrote:


May 4, 2012 -- 10:09AM, lope wrote:


May 3, 2012 -- 7:31PM, Bob_the_Lunatic wrote:


One thing is for sure folks... with christians such as this, there is no question that the christian heaven is a place to avoid, real or false, assuming it is packed with such superior folks.  





Smart choice--always chose oblivion over life.




No, the correct statement is:  "Always choose equality over tyranny."





I cannot see any meaning there.




Of course not, you are christian.





I suspect that is not the problem.  Perhaps the problem is, there is no meaning there.




The meaning is obvious and true, unless blinded by a lowly teaching that prevents one from seeing reality.





Your meaning is not obvious and my theology is not preventing me from seeing reality if you presented a logical reality.




I present nothing-it presents itself.  You are the one trying to escape it and looking for an EASIER place to live; as I said, "cowardice", and nothing fancier than that.


I've also shown how the theology cages the mind from even looking... much less finding-so you actually proved my point with your avoidance and inability to understand such a simple thing...





I think you are believing in things that do not exist--as for example the inability of a human being to enjoy this life and look forward to the next.




That's not what I've said.  I've said that if you believe in a better life elsewhere than you cannot believe that happiness in this life is anything more than "limited" and "less" by definition.  And that is not a belief, it is basic logic.





Of course this life is not perfect and if the next one is perfect this one is less than that one.  What is the point of dwelling on that?  If you do not believe in a more perfect life after this one you still can recongize the limitations of this one.




Then it's precisely as I said.  And all your arguments are rhetoric, as you cannot have it both ways.  And I don't dwell on this life-christians ignore the true value of it-by the very nature of the theory that it is limited compared to their afterworld.  And no, I see no limitations on this life.  The only limitations that exist are those you've chosen to chain your mind with via christian theory of a "better world" elsewhere.  I've read your book, you haven't read mine-so there's no logic in you assuming to understand, nor feign interest in my outlook on this or really any theological issue, now is there.





If you see no limitations in this life, you are not able to see reality.  Part of the reality you are not seeing is the ability of Christians to believe in a better hereafter and fully enjoy this one.  I think Christians and people who believe in a destiny other than oblivion do enjoy this life more than people who do not believe in a destiny other than oblivion, on average.




You argue in circles, with no static definitions.  You said the next word is "better", thus you define THIS WORLD as limited.  To pretend otherwise, is just dishonest.  Again, this is precisely what we call "moving the cheese", you define it, then back up and change the meaning.  If you cannot pick a meaning and stay with it, you've forfeited.  These two ideas "This world is not limited" and "the next world is BETTER" are mutually exclusive, you cannot have both... unless as I said, you're just a liar.





You might try reading what I wrote.  I have never said this world is not limited.  I have consistently said this world is less than perfect.





Then good, we're in agreement:  This world is limited from the christian point of view.  To achieve unlimited potential-the christian must be reborn elsewhere in a land called "Heaven".  Which brings us full circle to my original point:  The christian sees a limit to happiness in this world, which means their ability to experience it is limited, IF they are wrong.  (They are.)





Too dumb to discuss.  This world is not perfect. We are not perfect.  That is not a Christian point of view.  That is just reallity.  That reality does not result in Christians being less happy.  It is nonsense to think it does.




I see, then by that reasoning, happiness and heaven have no correlation.  Heaven has nothing to do with happiness and offers no more happiness than this world, I can accept that.

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2 years ago  ::  May 14, 2012 - 12:58PM #244
lope
Posts: 11,785

May 13, 2012 -- 10:31AM, Bob_the_Lunatic wrote:


May 10, 2012 -- 12:57PM, lope wrote:


May 10, 2012 -- 11:59AM, Bob_the_Lunatic wrote:


May 10, 2012 -- 10:21AM, lope wrote:


May 9, 2012 -- 11:54PM, Bob_the_Lunatic wrote:


May 8, 2012 -- 11:17AM, lope wrote:


May 7, 2012 -- 7:14PM, Bob_the_Lunatic wrote:


May 7, 2012 -- 4:56PM, lope wrote:


May 7, 2012 -- 3:23PM, Bob_the_Lunatic wrote:


May 7, 2012 -- 11:05AM, lope wrote:


May 6, 2012 -- 9:24PM, Bob_the_Lunatic wrote:


May 6, 2012 -- 7:46PM, lope wrote:


May 4, 2012 -- 3:32PM, Bob_the_Lunatic wrote:


May 4, 2012 -- 2:35PM, lope wrote:


May 4, 2012 -- 2:31PM, Bob_the_Lunatic wrote:


May 4, 2012 -- 2:14PM, lope wrote:


May 4, 2012 -- 12:48PM, Bob_the_Lunatic wrote:


May 4, 2012 -- 10:09AM, lope wrote:


May 3, 2012 -- 7:31PM, Bob_the_Lunatic wrote:


One thing is for sure folks... with christians such as this, there is no question that the christian heaven is a place to avoid, real or false, assuming it is packed with such superior folks.  





Smart choice--always chose oblivion over life.




No, the correct statement is:  "Always choose equality over tyranny."





I cannot see any meaning there.




Of course not, you are christian.





I suspect that is not the problem.  Perhaps the problem is, there is no meaning there.




The meaning is obvious and true, unless blinded by a lowly teaching that prevents one from seeing reality.





Your meaning is not obvious and my theology is not preventing me from seeing reality if you presented a logical reality.




I present nothing-it presents itself.  You are the one trying to escape it and looking for an EASIER place to live; as I said, "cowardice", and nothing fancier than that.


I've also shown how the theology cages the mind from even looking... much less finding-so you actually proved my point with your avoidance and inability to understand such a simple thing...





I think you are believing in things that do not exist--as for example the inability of a human being to enjoy this life and look forward to the next.




That's not what I've said.  I've said that if you believe in a better life elsewhere than you cannot believe that happiness in this life is anything more than "limited" and "less" by definition.  And that is not a belief, it is basic logic.





Of course this life is not perfect and if the next one is perfect this one is less than that one.  What is the point of dwelling on that?  If you do not believe in a more perfect life after this one you still can recongize the limitations of this one.




Then it's precisely as I said.  And all your arguments are rhetoric, as you cannot have it both ways.  And I don't dwell on this life-christians ignore the true value of it-by the very nature of the theory that it is limited compared to their afterworld.  And no, I see no limitations on this life.  The only limitations that exist are those you've chosen to chain your mind with via christian theory of a "better world" elsewhere.  I've read your book, you haven't read mine-so there's no logic in you assuming to understand, nor feign interest in my outlook on this or really any theological issue, now is there.





If you see no limitations in this life, you are not able to see reality.  Part of the reality you are not seeing is the ability of Christians to believe in a better hereafter and fully enjoy this one.  I think Christians and people who believe in a destiny other than oblivion do enjoy this life more than people who do not believe in a destiny other than oblivion, on average.




You argue in circles, with no static definitions.  You said the next word is "better", thus you define THIS WORLD as limited.  To pretend otherwise, is just dishonest.  Again, this is precisely what we call "moving the cheese", you define it, then back up and change the meaning.  If you cannot pick a meaning and stay with it, you've forfeited.  These two ideas "This world is not limited" and "the next world is BETTER" are mutually exclusive, you cannot have both... unless as I said, you're just a liar.





You might try reading what I wrote.  I have never said this world is not limited.  I have consistently said this world is less than perfect.





Then good, we're in agreement:  This world is limited from the christian point of view.  To achieve unlimited potential-the christian must be reborn elsewhere in a land called "Heaven".  Which brings us full circle to my original point:  The christian sees a limit to happiness in this world, which means their ability to experience it is limited, IF they are wrong.  (They are.)





Too dumb to discuss.  This world is not perfect. We are not perfect.  That is not a Christian point of view.  That is just reallity.  That reality does not result in Christians being less happy.  It is nonsense to think it does.




I see, then by that reasoning, happiness and heaven have no correlation.  Heaven has nothing to do with happiness and offers no more happiness than this world, I can accept that.





There is no reasonable connection between what I said and what you said.

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