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2 years ago  ::  May 04, 2012 - 12:53PM #201
Bob_the_Lunatic
Posts: 3,458

May 4, 2012 -- 6:58AM, nieciedo wrote:


May 3, 2012 -- 11:59PM, Bob_the_Lunatic wrote:


So you have no answer.  "we must trust" is not an answer, but a simple calmness accepting the lack of one.  That however, is not what I asked for.


As such, until you give a respectful answer (ie don't PRETEND to answer my question, if you don't know, then say "I don't know"-keep it respectful), I'll respond in kind to yours:


Sure, in every way, everything that happens.  (which is actually better-as it's honest, but I'm ignoring the nature of your question, so it's about as respectful...)




So you don't have an answer or an explanation about this "justice" that you believe in? Fair enough. 


Arguments can be made that this world doesn't matter even if there is no other one. If there is no kind of afterlife, no means in which consciousness survives in any way after physical death, then there is no possibility of experiencing regret or satisfaction regarding one's life: the one who makes the most of his life is just as dead as the one who wastes his brief time living, and the one gains nothing and the other loses nothing and both no longer exist so the loser suffers no pain for having missed out. 




This all assumes that this moment has no effect on the next, which is incorrect.  Destiny is chosen by who one is in each moment.  And I agree, consciousness doesn't survive-but that's irrelevant if one's motives are pure.  If one is acting from one's nature instead of based on who is watching or what the reward/punishment is... then it matters, no matter what, even if one doesn't remember.


And of course I have an answer, but it's irrelevant if you cannot see the obvious issue of why this world being "defiled" or "less" compared to the next is a very lowly view of the self and this world-which are one.  Again, purity is in the mind, which means ANY LAND is the pure land.  A land is not pure by its own accord, but only by reflecting the pure mind.  Christianity has no interest in the mind, but only in the land-to be purified by an outside force at a later date, which again limits its adherents' ability to focus on this life with the belief in true happiness here and now.


Shallow vs. True.

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2 years ago  ::  May 04, 2012 - 12:55PM #202
Bob_the_Lunatic
Posts: 3,458

May 4, 2012 -- 12:51PM, nieciedo wrote:


May 4, 2012 -- 12:48PM, Bob_the_Lunatic wrote:


No, the correct statement is:  "Always choose equality over tyranny."





Why? On what basis do you assume people are "equal," and why is "tyranny" less preferable?


Is this derived from your eternal and absolute notion of justice that is somehow manifest in nature and life? If so, how?




Not people my good man, ALL life.  Because at its fundamental level, all life is the same.  Yes, all life abides by the same law.

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2 years ago  ::  May 04, 2012 - 1:09PM #203
nieciedo
Posts: 5,617

May 4, 2012 -- 12:53PM, Bob_the_Lunatic wrote:

 
This all assumes that this moment has no effect on the next, which is incorrect.  Destiny is chosen by who one is in each moment.  And I agree, consciousness doesn't survive-but that's irrelevant if one's motives are pure.  If one is acting from one's nature instead of based on who is watching or what the reward/punishment is... then it matters, no matter what, even if one doesn't remember.



How does one determine if one's motives are "pure?"


And of course I have an answer, but it's irrelevant if you cannot see the obvious issue of why this world being "defiled" or "less" compared to the next is a very lowly view of the self and this world-which are one.  Again, purity is in the mind, which means ANY LAND is the pure land.  A land is not pure by its own accord, but only by reflecting the pure mind.  Christianity has no interest in the mind, but only in the land-to be purified by an outside force at a later date, which again limits its adherents ability to focus on this life with the belief in true happiness here and now.




Having an answer and not sharing it is pretty much the same as not having an answer.


What is "true happiness?"

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2 years ago  ::  May 04, 2012 - 1:10PM #204
nieciedo
Posts: 5,617

May 4, 2012 -- 12:55PM, Bob_the_Lunatic wrote:


Not people my good man, ALL life.  Because at its fundamental level, all life is the same.  Yes, all life abides by the same law.






And that law is survival of the fittest, to the victor go the spoils, and vae victis?

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2 years ago  ::  May 04, 2012 - 1:18PM #205
Bob_the_Lunatic
Posts: 3,458

May 4, 2012 -- 1:10PM, nieciedo wrote:


May 4, 2012 -- 12:55PM, Bob_the_Lunatic wrote:


Not people my good man, ALL life.  Because at its fundamental level, all life is the same.  Yes, all life abides by the same law.






And that law is survival of the fittest, to the victor go the spoils, and vae victis?




No, the law of cause and effect.

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2 years ago  ::  May 04, 2012 - 1:21PM #206
Bob_the_Lunatic
Posts: 3,458

May 4, 2012 -- 1:09PM, nieciedo wrote:


May 4, 2012 -- 12:53PM, Bob_the_Lunatic wrote:

 
This all assumes that this moment has no effect on the next, which is incorrect.  Destiny is chosen by who one is in each moment.  And I agree, consciousness doesn't survive-but that's irrelevant if one's motives are pure.  If one is acting from one's nature instead of based on who is watching or what the reward/punishment is... then it matters, no matter what, even if one doesn't remember.



How does one determine if one's motives are "pure?"


And of course I have an answer, but it's irrelevant if you cannot see the obvious issue of why this world being "defiled" or "less" compared to the next is a very lowly view of the self and this world-which are one.  Again, purity is in the mind, which means ANY LAND is the pure land.  A land is not pure by its own accord, but only by reflecting the pure mind.  Christianity has no interest in the mind, but only in the land-to be purified by an outside force at a later date, which again limits its adherents ability to focus on this life with the belief in true happiness here and now.




Having an answer and not sharing it is pretty much the same as not having an answer.


What is "true happiness?"




If one has to think it over before acting-motives are not pure.  If one lives it, then it's pure.  It must be natural, not based on some debate or reasoning-and certainly not self motivated, like gaining the favor of a sky monster or something like that-might as well do the opposite then.



True Happiness, is the confidence that one can overcome anything, based on immutable truth within, it is a love of life itself, in the moment.  Anything based on outside circumstances, like spouse, job, money, etc. is temporary and false as it is based on something outside the self.

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2 years ago  ::  May 04, 2012 - 1:25PM #207
nieciedo
Posts: 5,617

May 4, 2012 -- 1:18PM, Bob_the_Lunatic wrote:


No, the law of cause and effect.





How does cause and effect produce justice?

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2 years ago  ::  May 04, 2012 - 1:33PM #208
nieciedo
Posts: 5,617

May 4, 2012 -- 1:21PM, Bob_the_Lunatic wrote:


If one has to think it over before acting-motives are not pure.  If one lives it, then it's pure.  It must be natural, not based on some debate or reasoning-and certainly not self motivated, like gaining the favor of a sky monster or something like that-might as well do the opposite then.



You favor instinct over reason, then? If I kill or otherwise incapacitate someone because he annoys me or is a rival for something I desire and removing him from the picture is my natural response without thinking it over, my motives would be pure?



True Happiness, is the confidence that one can overcome anything, based on immutable truth within, it is a love of life itself, in the moment.  Anything based on outside circumstances, like spouse, job, money, etc. is temporary and false as it is based on something outside the self.





This belief that one can overcome anything and this talk of "immutable truth within" sounds suspiciously like religion. Where is the proof that one can overcome anything? Where is the proof of this "immutable truth within?"


Seems about as plausible as a "sky monster," whatever that is supposed to be.

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2 years ago  ::  May 04, 2012 - 1:35PM #209
Bob_the_Lunatic
Posts: 3,458

May 4, 2012 -- 1:33PM, nieciedo wrote:


May 4, 2012 -- 1:21PM, Bob_the_Lunatic wrote:


If one has to think it over before acting-motives are not pure.  If one lives it, then it's pure.  It must be natural, not based on some debate or reasoning-and certainly not self motivated, like gaining the favor of a sky monster or something like that-might as well do the opposite then.



You favor instinct over reason, then? If I kill or otherwise incapacitate someone because he annoys me or is a rival for something I desire and removing him from the picture is my natural response without thinking it over, my motives would be pure?



True Happiness, is the confidence that one can overcome anything, based on immutable truth within, it is a love of life itself, in the moment.  Anything based on outside circumstances, like spouse, job, money, etc. is temporary and false as it is based on something outside the self.





This belief that one can overcome anything and this talk of "immutable truth within" sounds suspiciously like religion. Where is the proof that one can overcome anything? Where is the proof of this "immutable truth within?"


Seems about as plausible as a "sky monster," whatever that is supposed to be.




First, you make too many assumptions; nobody mentioned instinct.  Second, we exist, there is ample evidence.  That said, since there is no evidence of gods, it is MUCH MORE plausible.  


Now, I've answered many questions.... yet I notice that mine regarding "different starting points" has yet to be answered, even though it predates several questions I've answered.  I guess we have to chalk it up to the rigged game that christianity presents!(?)!

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2 years ago  ::  May 04, 2012 - 1:37PM #210
Bob_the_Lunatic
Posts: 3,458

May 4, 2012 -- 1:25PM, nieciedo wrote:


May 4, 2012 -- 1:18PM, Bob_the_Lunatic wrote:


No, the law of cause and effect.





How does cause and effect produce justice?




Because it is absolute, and based on nature, rather than act.  Acts have no value in themselves-a thing christianity fails to understand.  For it is the NATURE of an act that determines its value.

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