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6 years ago  ::  Apr 27, 2012 - 8:52PM #11
JCarlin
Posts: 8,225

Apr 27, 2012 -- 6:01PM, Seefan wrote:

What do you think?  It's about as correct and understandable as your understanding of spiritual reality ...


You will find that atheists understand spiritual reality much better than most theists.  They know that spiritual reality has been hijacked by those little vuvuzelas in the fancy dresses in the over decorated balconies to con believers into thinking that God has something to do with spiritual reality.  However the lie has been told so many times that even some who know better have given up on spiritual reality. 




J'Carlin
If the shoe doesn't fit, don't cram your foot in it and complain.
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6 years ago  ::  Apr 27, 2012 - 8:59PM #12
Seefan
Posts: 4,017

Apr 27, 2012 -- 8:52PM, JCarlin wrote:

 

Apr 27, 2012 -- 6:01PM, Seefan wrote:

What do you think?  It's about as correct and understandable as your understanding of spiritual reality ...


You will find that atheists understand spiritual reality much better than most theists.  They know that spiritual reality has been hijacked by those little vuvuzelas in the fancy dresses in the over decorated balconies to con believers into thinking that God has something to do with spiritual reality.  However the lie has been told so many times that even some who know better have given up on spiritual reality. 



So are you saying that people give up on developing an greater understanding of personal \spiritual reality because of some preceived mis-understanding others have that's not to their taste??  That's odd ...

In the human world, if we do not understand the divine world, is that a proof that the world of God does not exist?  (Divine Philosophy, p. 117 ... Baha'i Writings)
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6 years ago  ::  Apr 27, 2012 - 9:05PM #13
Ken
Posts: 33,858

There is no "spiritual reality." There's only "reality," and you're stuck with it whether you like it or not.

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6 years ago  ::  Apr 27, 2012 - 9:57PM #14
JCarlin
Posts: 8,225

Apr 27, 2012 -- 8:59PM, Seefan wrote:

So are you saying that people give up on developing an greater understanding of personal \spiritual reality because of some preceived mis-understanding others have that's not to their taste??  That's odd ...


No, they do very well developing their personal /spiritual reality, they just use different terms for it.  Personal reality development is a given in atheism as atheists need waste no time on contemplation of supernatural unreality.  As noted earlier appreciating spiritual reality is a natural reward mechanism in the human mind/brain. It is just the term that is avoided by some due to its common association with supernatural unreality.   

J'Carlin
If the shoe doesn't fit, don't cram your foot in it and complain.
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6 years ago  ::  Apr 27, 2012 - 10:29PM #15
Blü
Posts: 26,191

STEP 1 - When you say 'belief', do you mean belief=opinion or belief=faith?


Take a proposition (or set of propositions) X that purports to be a correct statement about reality.


If you have a view on the correctness of X, you have an opinion, a belief, about X - call it a belief/opinion.


If you have a view on the correctness of X, and in addition, sound argument can't alter that view, then you hold your view on faith - call it belief/faith.


STEP 2 - Which kind of 'belief' is atheism?


It can be either.


Mine is belief/opinion. It reads -


We have no good reason to think that supernatural beings have objective existence, so I don't.


You can argue me out of my opinion (though you'll need to clear up the denotation of 'supernatural being' first).

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6 years ago  ::  Apr 28, 2012 - 8:23AM #16
Seefan
Posts: 4,017

Apr 27, 2012 -- 9:57PM, JCarlin wrote:


Apr 27, 2012 -- 8:59PM, Seefan wrote:

So are you saying that people give up on developing an greater understanding of personal \spiritual reality because of some preceived mis-understanding others have that's not to their taste??  That's odd ...


No, they do very well developing their personal /spiritual reality, they just use different terms for it.  Personal reality development is a given in atheism as atheists need waste no time on contemplation of supernatural unreality.  As noted earlier appreciating spiritual reality is a natural reward mechanism in the human mind/brain. It is just the term that is avoided by some due to its common association with supernatural unreality.  



Thanks JC for your reply!  So I guess you're saying that some are hesitate to use the term spiritual because it may imply to others a connection to a supernatural unreality.  Although as pointed out I don't know much still I get that and I think I understand that type of fear ...

In the human world, if we do not understand the divine world, is that a proof that the world of God does not exist?  (Divine Philosophy, p. 117 ... Baha'i Writings)
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6 years ago  ::  Apr 28, 2012 - 12:10PM #17
chevy956
Posts: 2,021

Seefan said: "Thanks JC for your reply!  So I guess you're saying that some are hesitate to use the term spiritual because it may imply to others a connection to a supernatural unreality.  Although as pointed out I don't know much still I get that and I think I understand that type of fear ... "


>>>>Who said there was any fear involved? There is zero objective evidence for anything that is commonly labeled "supernatural" or "spiritual". I ignore such terms because they are meaningless, not because I am afraid of something which has no objective existance.

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6 years ago  ::  Apr 28, 2012 - 1:27PM #18
costrel
Posts: 6,227

Apr 28, 2012 -- 12:10PM, chevy956 wrote:

>>>>Who said there was any fear involved? There is zero objective evidence for anything that is commonly labeled "supernatural" or "spiritual". I ignore such terms because they are meaningless, not because I am afraid of something which has no objective existance.


I don't use spiritual because I have always associated spiritual with "religion or religious belief" rather than with "the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things" (quotes taken from the two Oxford Dictionaries Online definitions of spiritual). Yet even the second definition, which associates spiritual with "the human spirit or soul" and with non-material and non-physical things seems problematic with me. For instance, what is exactly non-material and non-physical? Feelings? Emotions? What exactly does one mean by "the human spirit or soul" from a non-theistic or atheistic perspective? 


And since I was raised Catholic, religious meant someone who was a monastic. So when I first heard people declare they were "spiritual but not religious," I wasn't entirely sure what they meant, but I was fairly certain that they weren't identifying themselves as non-monastics. The idea that they were actually identifying themselves as people who believed in at least one god (and oftentimes also believed in angels, demons, ghosts, spirits, aliens, reincarnation, zombies, an afterlife, etc.) but who did not attend a church or a non-Christian "house or worship" did not occur to me. 

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6 years ago  ::  Apr 28, 2012 - 2:29PM #19
mainecaptain
Posts: 21,796

Apr 28, 2012 -- 12:10PM, chevy956 wrote:


Seefan said: "Thanks JC for your reply!  So I guess you're saying that some are hesitate to use the term spiritual because it may imply to others a connection to a supernatural unreality.  Although as pointed out I don't know much still I get that and I think I understand that type of fear ... "


>>>>Who said there was any fear involved? There is zero objective evidence for anything that is commonly labeled "supernatural" or "spiritual". I ignore such terms because they are meaningless, not because I am afraid of something which has no objective existance.




Using the word "fear" gives a feeling of superiority to the person accusing others of being afraid.


Like when theists say atheists hate  their god. So they became atheists.



Which of cousre shows a true lack of understand.

A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. Aristotle
Never discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Plato..
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives" Jackie Robinson
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6 years ago  ::  Apr 28, 2012 - 2:39PM #20
chevy956
Posts: 2,021

Apr 28, 2012 -- 2:29PM, mainecaptain wrote:

Apr 28, 2012 -- 12:10PM, chevy956 wrote:


Seefan said: "Thanks JC for your reply!  So I guess you're saying that some are hesitate to use the term spiritual because it may imply to others a connection to a supernatural unreality.  Although as pointed out I don't know much still I get that and I think I understand that type of fear ... "


>>>>Who said there was any fear involved? There is zero objective evidence for anything that is commonly labeled "supernatural" or "spiritual". I ignore such terms because they are meaningless, not because I am afraid of something which has no objective existance.




Using the word "fear" gives a feeling of superiority to the person accusing others of being afraid.


Like when theists say atheists hate  their god. So they became atheists.



Which of cousre shows a true lack of understand.


Yep, they do love to project....and then get bent out of shape when called on it.


 

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