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Switch to Forum Live View Jehovah's Witnesses teach God is love - what is your witness/testimony?
2 years ago  ::  Apr 24, 2012 - 9:21AM #1
Newtonian
Posts: 12,187

This is a spin-off from knowsnothing's thread on the touchstone (Revelation 20:10 - basanistos definition {not torment}).  


Jehovah's Witnesses teach God is love - 1 John 4:8.   

Others teach God is cruel - such as teaching eternal torment in Hell Fire or teaching that the suffering on earth is all part of God's plan - or even teaching predestination.

So, Jehovah's Witnesses is not just a name - it is description of those Jehovah has given the privilege of being called by his name as his witnesses in contrast with other witnesses, to wit:

(Isaiah 43:6-12) . . .Bring my sons from far off, and my daughters from the extremity of the earth, 7 everyone that is called by my name and that I have created for my own glory, that I have formed, yes, that I have made.’ 8 “Bring forth a people blind though eyes themselves exist, and the ones deaf though they have ears. 9 Let the nations all be collected together at one place, and let national groups be gathered together. Who is there among them that can tell this? Or can they cause us to hear even the first things? Let them furnish their witnesses, that they may be declared righteous, or let them hear and say, ‘It is the truth!’” 10 “YOU are my witnesses,” is the utterance of Jehovah, “even my servant whom I have chosen, in order that YOU may know and have faith in me, and that YOU may understand that I am the same One. Before me there was no God formed, and after me there continued to be none. 11 I—I am Jehovah, and besides me there is no savior.” 12 “I myself have told forth and have saved and have caused [it] to be heard, when there was among YOU no strange [god]. So YOU are my witnesses,” is the utterance of Jehovah, “and I am God.


Another way we show God is love is by our actions - actions speak louder than words.   Thus, like Gandhi, we advocate non-violence and leave righteous vengeance to Jehovah:


 


(Romans 12:9-21) 9 Let [YOUR] love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is wicked, cling to what is good. 10 In brotherly love have tender affection for one another. In showing honor to one another take the lead. 11 Do not loiter at YOUR business. Be aglow with the spirit. Slave for Jehovah. 12 Rejoice in the hope. Endure under tribulation. Persevere in prayer. 13 Share with the holy ones according to their needs. Follow the course of hospitality. 14 Keep on blessing those who persecute; be blessing and do not be cursing. 15 Rejoice with people who rejoice; weep with people who weep. 16 Be minded the same way toward others as to yourselves; do not be minding lofty things, but be led along with the lowly things. Do not become discreet in YOUR own eyes. 17 Return evil for evil to no one. Provide fine things in the sight of all men. 18 If possible, as far as it depends upon YOU, be peaceable with all men. 19 Do not avenge yourselves, beloved, but yield place to the wrath; for it is written: “Vengeance is mine; I will repay, says Jehovah.” 20 But, “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by doing this you will heap fiery coals upon his head.” 21 Do not let yourself be conquered by the evil, but keep conquering the evil with the good.


 


So, who of you posters wish to go on record or witness or give testimony to the fact that God is love (1 John 4:8)?   And who of you witness or give testimony that God is not loving? I go on record as loving Jehovah with all my heart and soul (see Matthew 22:37-40) because of having gotten to know Jehovah (1 John 4:8) and growing in love for Jehovah as a result. Our literature also gives witness that God is love and encourages us to remain in God's love.  Here are two of many links on this:

www.watchtower.org/e/20080501/article_04...

www.watchtower.org/e/bh/article_19.htm

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 24, 2012 - 9:34AM #2
cherubino
Posts: 7,277

Newtonian,


Why do you refer to disagreements with your theology as accusations? What a peculiar choice of words! Why do you see yourself as an object, and why are you so sensitive about it that you have to bring it all up in yet another new thread?


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2 years ago  ::  Apr 24, 2012 - 10:05AM #3
mrjordan
Posts: 2,163

Jehovah yearns to resurrect those that have died but have kept in his memory. Job 14:13-15


Those who have died are kept in Jehovah's memory according to Job. Those who are remembered will be resurrected. Because they are in the memory of Jehovah, God of the living. Matthew 22:32


I can testify that Jehovah loves us but hates death and yearns for the resurrection of those in his memory.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 24, 2012 - 10:12AM #4
Newtonian
Posts: 12,187

Apr 24, 2012 -- 9:34AM, cherubino wrote:


Newtonian,


Why do you refer to disagreements with your theology as accusations? What a peculiar choice of words! Why do you see yourself as an object, and why are you so sensitive about it that you have to bring it all up in yet another new thread?





Cherubino - I edited my post in response - Is. 43 does not say "accuse" - it invites other witnesses to witness and/or accept the truth.


Is there another thread testifying God is love?   Knowsnothing's thread is about the touchstone of Revelation 20:10 - though most posters are ignoring the definitions of basinistos.


I, I guess it depends on what you mean by "object."Surprised


I try to be objective!Smile

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 24, 2012 - 10:14AM #5
mrjordan
Posts: 2,163

Apr 24, 2012 -- 9:34AM, cherubino wrote:


Newtonian,


Why do you refer to disagreements with your theology as accusations? What a peculiar choice of words! Why do you see yourself as an object, and why are you so sensitive about it that you have to bring it all up in yet another new thread?





I actually understand where Newt is coming from. When someone calls Jehovah a murder or cruel is really hurts us deeply. Jehovah is trying to help as many as he can but he is being called a criminal. We know that Jehovah did not start this tragedy, beginning in the garden of Eden. Jehovah waits and waits for mankind to come around. But then He gets shouted at for waiting. What Newt is saying and I agree with 100% is that no matter what people may say, we are to be Witnesses to Jehovah's love.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 24, 2012 - 10:20AM #6
Newtonian
Posts: 12,187

Apr 24, 2012 -- 10:05AM, mrjordan wrote:


Jehovah yearns to resurrect those that have died but have kept in his memory. Job 14:13-15


Those who have died are kept in Jehovah's memory according to Job. Those who are remembered will be resurrected. Because they are in the memory of Jehovah, God of the living. Matthew 22:32


I can testify that Jehovah loves us but hates death and cannot wait until the resurrection of those in his memory.




Yes, I miss my mom and dad!   What a loving provision! (John 3:16)


(Luke 20:37, 38) . . .But that the dead are raised up even Moses disclosed, in the account about the thornbush, when he calls Jehovah ‘the God of Abraham and God of Isaac and God of Jacob.’ 38 He is a God, not of the dead, but of the living, for they are all living to him.”


NW footnote: Or, “living from his standpoint.”


And getting to know how Jehovah yearns for the dead like Job knew also draws me to love Jehovah!


(Job 14:14, 15) . . .If an able-bodied man dies can he live again? All the days of my compulsory service I shall wait, Until my relief comes. 15 You will call, and I myself shall answer you. For the work of your hands you will have a yearning.


What a comfort that was to Job as he suffered at Satan's hands!


What a comfort to us also to know how much God loves us!



 


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2 years ago  ::  Apr 24, 2012 - 11:02AM #7
mrjordan
Posts: 2,163

Apr 24, 2012 -- 10:20AM, Newtonian wrote:


Apr 24, 2012 -- 10:05AM, mrjordan wrote:


Jehovah yearns to resurrect those that have died but have kept in his memory. Job 14:13-15


Those who have died are kept in Jehovah's memory according to Job. Those who are remembered will be resurrected. Because they are in the memory of Jehovah, God of the living. Matthew 22:32


I can testify that Jehovah loves us but hates death and cannot wait until the resurrection of those in his memory.




Yes, I miss my mom and dad!   What a loving provision! (John 3:16)


(Luke 20:37, 38) . . .But that the dead are raised up even Moses disclosed, in the account about the thornbush, when he calls Jehovah ‘the God of Abraham and God of Isaac and God of Jacob.’ 38 He is a God, not of the dead, but of the living, for they are all living to him.”


NW footnote: Or, “living from his standpoint.”


And getting to know how Jehovah yearns for the dead like Job knew also draws me to love Jehovah!


(Job 14:14, 15) . . .If an able-bodied man dies can he live again? All the days of my compulsory service I shall wait, Until my relief comes. 15 You will call, and I myself shall answer you. For the work of your hands you will have a yearning.


What a comfort that was to Job as he suffered at Satan's hands!


What a comfort to us also to know how much God loves us!




More to add to this line of thought.


Jehovah did not have to make the writers of the bible mention the resurrection. He could just do it and not tell us. But it was important to Jehovah that we have hope now, in these times. Those resurrected like Lazarus, did not have to be resurrected or mentioned in the bible either. But they were, to prove to us that we can be resurrected. Jehovah did not have prove that He could can resurrect people, but He did! Thus giving us more hope. Jehovah is a loving God because through the bible, He wishes to give us hope.




In the case of Lazarus, let's note there were those who did not see these things as a blessing and did not acknowledge these acts as love. There were ones that wanted this act to be covered up. Not only did they plot to kill Jesus but kill Lazarus too so this event would be silenced.


John 12:9-11
"9 Therefore a great crowd of the Jews got to know he was there, and they came, not on account of Jesus only, but also to see Laz´a·rus, whom he raised up from the dead. 10 The chief priests now took counsel to kill Laz´a·rus also, 11 because on account of him many of the Jews were going there and putting faith in Jesus. "



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2 years ago  ::  Apr 24, 2012 - 11:14AM #8
Knowsnothing
Posts: 1,150

Apr 24, 2012 -- 9:21AM, Newtonian wrote:



(Romans 12:9-21) 9 Let [YOUR] love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is wicked, cling to what is good. 10 In brotherly love have tender affection for one another. In showing honor to one another take the lead. 11 Do not loiter at YOUR business. Be aglow with the spirit. Slave for Jehovah. 12 Rejoice in the hope. Endure under tribulation. Persevere in prayer. 13 Share with the holy ones according to their needs. Follow the course of hospitality. 14 Keep on blessing those who persecute; be blessing and do not be cursing. 15 Rejoice with people who rejoice; weep with people who weep. 16 Be minded the same way toward others as to yourselves; do not be minding lofty things, but be led along with the lowly things. Do not become discreet in YOUR own eyes. 17 Return evil for evil to no one. Provide fine things in the sight of all men. 18 If possible, as far as it depends upon YOU, be peaceable with all men. 19 Do not avenge yourselves, beloved, but yield place to the wrath; for it is written: “Vengeance is mine; I will repay, says Jehovah.” 20 But, “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by doing this you will heap fiery coals upon his head.” 21 Do not let yourself be conquered by the evil, but keep conquering the evil with the good.



www.watchtower.org/e/20080501/article_04...


The Bible describes love this way: “Love is long-suffering and kind. Love is not jealous, it does not brag, does not get puffed up, does not behave indecently, does not look for its own interests, does not become provoked. It does not keep account of the injury. It does not rejoice over unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth. It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never fails.” (1 Corinthians 13:4-8) Does it seem reasonable to believe that this most noble of qualities arose by blind chance?



Psalms 37:13 but the Lord laughs at the wicked, for he knows their day is coming.


Psalms 33:10 10 The LORD foils the plans of the nations; he thwarts the purposes of the peoples.


Proverbs 3:34 He mocks proud mockers but gives grace to the humble.


Psalms 2:4 The One enthroned in heaven laughs; the Lord scoffs at them.


There are a lot more texts I am looking to compile.




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2 years ago  ::  Apr 24, 2012 - 11:37AM #9
cherubino
Posts: 7,277

Apr 24, 2012 -- 10:14AM, mrjordan wrote:


I actually understand where Newt is coming from. When someone calls Jehovah a murder or cruel is really hurts us deeply. Jehovah is trying to help as many as he can but he is being called a criminal. We know that Jehovah did not start this tragedy, beginning in the garden of Eden. Jehovah waits and waits for mankind to come around. But then He gets shouted at for waiting. What Newt is saying and I agree with 100% is that no matter what people may say, we are to be Witnesses to Jehovah's love.




But you see, mrjordan, many of us don't believe in God as a fact, any more than truth, beauty or justice are facts. To us, any theology which anthropomorphicizes the divine is a misuse of the mind, like using math to decipher the meaning of a poem. You guys are not making statements of fact, but declarations of belief, and I for one cannot see how your lives are any better for it.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 24, 2012 - 6:56PM #10
Goodtobehomestill
Posts: 6,583

Apr 24, 2012 -- 10:05AM, mrjordan wrote:


Jehovah yearns to resurrect those that have died but have kept in his memory. Job 14:13-15


Those who have died are kept in Jehovah's memory according to Job. Those who are remembered will be resurrected. Because they are in the memory of Jehovah, God of the living. Matthew 22:32


I can testify that Jehovah loves us but hates death and yearns for the resurrection of those in his memory.





I'll tell you a cute story, MrJordan.  When my granddaughter was about 7, I was explaining this scripture to her, and she asked what the word 'yearns' means.  I explained to her that it meant that you wanted something back, that was lost or had disappeared, or that you greatly desired something.  She looked thoughtful, then said something like 'so you mean, if I die, God misses me!' 


So young, to so completely 'get the point.'Smile

“People are not disturbed by things, but by the views they take of them.”
― Epictetus

Life is like photography, you need a clear lens, and the picture you get depends on what you focus on.


Anger stems from irrational beliefs about others, anxiety stems from irrational beliefs about yourself.---Spencer Lord, The Brain Mechanic
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