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Switch to Forum Live View 1 Corinthians 6:9 - grounds for disfellowshipping from Jehovah's Witnesses
2 years ago  ::  May 01, 2012 - 4:36PM #81
mrjordan
Posts: 2,207

May 1, 2012 -- 4:21PM, Knowsnothing wrote:


We live in a day an age where there is freedom of religion.  I may not think as you do, but I agree to disagree.  This is the general mindset I would hope would be prevalent.


A person wishing to exit Mormons, Scientologists, JW's, Amish, etc. have such freedom, with a price.  The church will always say they are free to leave, but the consequences are still there.  Loss of friends and family.  It doesn't matter if it is sexual immorality, church doctrine, or just leaving.  It's all the same.


It's quite frankly ludicrous.  In any given work environment, in any given school environment, how many religions and beliefs exist?  How many people are willing to forego these personal factors and engage in what is essentially human; to interact, to talk about all different kinds of subjects, and all in all, just to be human.  You could disagree with a Muslim about his faith, but like playing basketball, like watching House, like the beach, etc.  You would be willing to put aside religious belief and interact with that human, because you've come to a common understanding that religion has nothing to do with any of these activities.


I think the growing apathy towards religion in the world is becoming more apparent, and when you still have things like shunning going on, it's all the more reason to understand such a position.


Irreligion.


1.1 billion and growing.  Talk about effective preaching.




It is knowing that groups like this exist makes me realize just how close we are to the death of Babylon the Great. Can you imagine if groups like this join together and become a strong voting voice? We can say good bye to the 1st amendment.

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2 years ago  ::  May 01, 2012 - 4:43PM #82
Truthwillset
Posts: 1,267

May 1, 2012 -- 4:01PM, mrjordan wrote:


Well then, I'm glad you are not an elder or part of the GB, there would be no Witnesses left and I would not be trying to serve Jehovah today.




What?!?!?!  


Yeah, I'm not an elder or a member of the GB, which is exactly why it's not my admonition you seem content to ignore. 


For those unfamiliar readers please note that MJ's experience in this regard flies in the face of the clear written direction of the WTS and it's GB.  For whatever reason MJ would like you to believe that the WTS is perfectly alright with having a disassociated family member to your house for a cook out.  This is simply not the case.

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2 years ago  ::  May 01, 2012 - 4:45PM #83
Knowsnothing
Posts: 1,150

May 1, 2012 -- 4:36PM, mrjordan wrote:


May 1, 2012 -- 4:21PM, Knowsnothing wrote:


We live in a day an age where there is freedom of religion.  I may not think as you do, but I agree to disagree.  This is the general mindset I would hope would be prevalent.


A person wishing to exit Mormons, Scientologists, JW's, Amish, etc. have such freedom, with a price.  The church will always say they are free to leave, but the consequences are still there.  Loss of friends and family.  It doesn't matter if it is sexual immorality, church doctrine, or just leaving.  It's all the same.


It's quite frankly ludicrous.  In any given work environment, in any given school environment, how many religions and beliefs exist?  How many people are willing to forego these personal factors and engage in what is essentially human; to interact, to talk about all different kinds of subjects, and all in all, just to be human.  You could disagree with a Muslim about his faith, but like playing basketball, like watching House, like the beach, etc.  You would be willing to put aside religious belief and interact with that human, because you've come to a common understanding that religion has nothing to do with any of these activities.


I think the growing apathy towards religion in the world is becoming more apparent, and when you still have things like shunning going on, it's all the more reason to understand such a position.


Irreligion.


1.1 billion and growing.  Talk about effective preaching.




It is knowing that groups like this exist makes me realize just how close we are to the death of Babylon the Great. Can you imagine if groups like this join together and become a strong voting voice? We can say good bye to the 1st amendment.




I don't agree with people that try and silence others.


The thing is, that works both ways.

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2 years ago  ::  May 01, 2012 - 4:58PM #84
mrjordan
Posts: 2,207

May 1, 2012 -- 4:43PM, Truthwillset wrote:


May 1, 2012 -- 4:01PM, mrjordan wrote:


Well then, I'm glad you are not an elder or part of the GB, there would be no Witnesses left and I would not be trying to serve Jehovah today.




What?!?!?!  


Yeah, I'm not an elder or a member of the GB, which is exactly why it's not my admonition you seem content to ignore. 


For those unfamiliar readers please note that MJ's experience in this regard flies in the face of the clear written direction of the WTS and it's GB.  For whatever reason MJ would like you to believe that the WTS is perfectly alright with having a disassociated family member to your house for a cook out.  This is simply not the case.




I find it strange that you make it known that you are not an elder or member of the GB yet you try to speak as one. I know that want people to think that Witnesses love to hate our own family members but, alas this is false.

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2 years ago  ::  May 01, 2012 - 5:37PM #85
Truthwillset
Posts: 1,267

May 1, 2012 -- 4:58PM, mrjordan wrote:


I find it strange that you make it known that you are not an elder or member of the GB yet you try to speak as one. I know that want people to think that Witnesses love to hate our own family members but, alas this is false.




I didn't realize you had to be an elder or a GB member to know what direction they give on such matters.  After all, they do print this stuff in their literature.


I never once said that JWs love to hate their own family members.  Although I find it odd that you would jump to that conclusion.  What I said was that the WTS, FDS and/or the GB admonishes you to avoid contact with disfellowshipped and disassociated members even if they are your family.


In fact, it is my contention that most JWs have to quell their natural and perhaps very strong feelings of love in order to follow the direction of the WTS.

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2 years ago  ::  May 01, 2012 - 5:51PM #86
mrjordan
Posts: 2,207

May 1, 2012 -- 5:37PM, Truthwillset wrote:


May 1, 2012 -- 4:58PM, mrjordan wrote:


I find it strange that you make it known that you are not an elder or member of the GB yet you try to speak as one. I know that want people to think that Witnesses love to hate our own family members but, alas this is false.




I didn't realize you had to be an elder or a GB member to know what direction they give on such matters.  After all, they do print this stuff in their literature.


I never once said that JWs love to hate their own family members.  Although I find it odd that you would jump to that conclusion.  What I said was that the WTS, FDS and/or the GB admonishes you to avoid contact with disfellowshipped and disassociated members even if they are your family.


In fact, it is my contention that most JWs have to quell their natural and perhaps very strong feelings of love in order to follow the direction of the WTS.




No offense TWS, but relying on you to explain my religion to me, is well, scary. The fact you say we have to "quell" feelings of love lets me know that you do not understand the religion at all. Love is what drives us to do everything. There are some cases though where our love and loyalty to Jehovah trumps all others. Which is why the relationship with my sister is limited and what I can talk about with her is also limited.

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2 years ago  ::  May 01, 2012 - 6:27PM #87
AnnOMaly
Posts: 3,240

Apostasy is a standing away from true worship, a falling away, defection, rebellion, abandonment



And a drug addict has NOT 'stood away' from or abandoned 'true worship' or 'fallen away' or 'defected' or 'rebelled'? Is that what you're saying?


Drug use is something we can try to help her with. However, if she was to knowingly join a church that, for example, taught hell fire when she KNOWS the truth is that a loving God would never allow a place such as hell. This would also mean that she is teaching others that hell is real. Now she would knowingly directing people away from the truth.



Surely, she KNOWS the truth about how God feels about her abusing her body, doesn't she? That people who practice such things as drunkeness, gluttony and pharmakia (druggery) will not inherit God's kingdom. How is it that differences in theological interpretation are greater sins than moral failings? Please explain.


Speaking for myself, to direct people away from Jehovah on purpose when you know what you are telling people is not true, is just something that I could not accept.



That's noble. Did you know that those who are now labelled 'mentally diseased apostates' feel exactly as you do and that is the reason they can no longer accept a religion that doesn't tell the truth on certain matters? Perspective. Can't family members agree to disagree and enjoy each other's company normally?



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2 years ago  ::  May 01, 2012 - 7:36PM #88
mrjordan
Posts: 2,207

I wanted to post an update here since this is as always a sensitive subject to everyone. Today I talked to the elders and my father as to why my older sister has been invited the past couple of years to my father's house. The reason the elder's see it as acceptable is for 2 reasons. 


First, my sister was 15 when she did not want to be a Witness anymore. The elders said that her age at proclaiming such a statement should not be held against her.


Second, in the past few years she has shown to the elders that she does not wish to continue on her current path.


So she is fighting to get her life back in order. However, I have also been told that even though these things are happening that I should still watch the influences she carries.


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2 years ago  ::  May 01, 2012 - 8:37PM #89
Knowsnothing
Posts: 1,150

May 1, 2012 -- 7:36PM, mrjordan wrote:


I wanted to post an update here since this is as always a sensitive subject to everyone.



Yes, that includes the treatment anyother denomination or religion dishes out on it's members.


May 1, 2012 -- 7:36PM, mrjordan wrote:


Today I talked to the elders and my father as to why my older sister has been invited the past couple of years to my father's house. The reason the elder's see it as acceptable is for 2 reasons.



You had to go see the elders on what is and isn't acceptable.  If they had said no, that would be the end of it.  Are you realizing how none of this depends on a deity intervening in things, and is just humans dictating what to and not to do?


May 1, 2012 -- 7:36PM, mrjordan wrote:


First, my sister was 15 when she did not want to be a Witness anymore. The elders said that her age at proclaiming such a statement should not be held against her.



This is a unique development for sure.  There are experiences that speak otherwise.  All I can say is that you are lucky you had a nice group of elders that understand the situation and don't try to apply the law so forcefully.  However, it just could of have easily gone the other way.


May 1, 2012 -- 7:36PM, mrjordan wrote:


Second, in the past few years she has shown to the elders that she does not wish to continue on her current path.


So she is fighting to get her life back in order. However, I have also been told that even though these things are happening that I should still watch the influences she carries.




So, she cleans up her act and get's clean.  She still won't go back to JW's.  What now?




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2 years ago  ::  May 03, 2012 - 6:08PM #90
Svetlana
Posts: 11,306

May 1, 2012 -- 4:58PM, mrjordan wrote:


May 1, 2012 -- 4:43PM, Truthwillset wrote:


May 1, 2012 -- 4:01PM, mrjordan wrote:


Well then, I'm glad you are not an elder or part of the GB, there would be no Witnesses left and I would not be trying to serve Jehovah today.




What?!?!?!  


Yeah, I'm not an elder or a member of the GB, which is exactly why it's not my admonition you seem content to ignore. 


For those unfamiliar readers please note that MJ's experience in this regard flies in the face of the clear written direction of the WTS and it's GB.  For whatever reason MJ would like you to believe that the WTS is perfectly alright with having a disassociated family member to your house for a cook out.  This is simply not the case.




I find it strange that you make it known that you are not an elder or member of the GB yet you try to speak as one. I know that want people to think that Witnesses love to hate our own family members but, alas this is false.



One doesn't have to be an elder, or anyone but a reader of JW literature, or an acquaintance of a JW.  I have two friends who were DF's simply for telling their families that they no longer wished to attend meetings, that they didn't agree with JW teachings.  These are two people, each in a different city and congregation, and they do not know each other.  The one was so cut off from her family that they did not tell her anything at all about the illness and death of her beloved sister until they notified her of the sister's funeral.  This was done with the full approval of the congregation and all who led it.  There are countless other, similar stories of total eviction from a family of a DF'd person, merely for disagreeing with JW theology, most emphatically NOT for immorality.


You belong to an unusual congregation, Mr. J.  More power to it!

"No matter how big and bad you are, when a two-year-old hands you a toy phone, you answer it."  ~ (common sense)

"Never place a period where God has placed a comma."  ~ Gracie Allen

"I care not for a man's religion whose dog and cat are not the better for it." ~ Abraham Lincoln

"I wonder sometimes if we ever give God a headache." ~ Dontay Hall, age 8
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