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Switch to Forum Live View 1 Corinthians 6:9 - grounds for disfellowshipping from Jehovah's Witnesses
2 years ago  ::  May 01, 2012 - 8:37AM #61
AnnOMaly
Posts: 3,198

So now since the idea that Witnesses did not believe in disfellowshipping has been debunked ...



I see a straw man knocked off his feet, there.


I said the WTS once denounced the practice of disfellowshipping. You haven't debunked that.


As for your other objections, KN has pretty much covered what I was going to say.

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2 years ago  ::  May 01, 2012 - 9:10AM #62
mrjordan
Posts: 2,019

May 1, 2012 -- 8:37AM, AnnOMaly wrote:


So now since the idea that Witnesses did not believe in disfellowshipping has been debunked ...



I see a straw man knocked off his feet, there.


I said the WTS once denounced the practice of disfellowshipping. You haven't debunked that.


As for your other objections, KN has pretty much covered what I was going to say.




How can they denounce disfellowshipping if they have been disfellowshipping people since the 1880's?


The article you posted was about the unlawful use of excommunication as a weapon to hunt down people by putting them outside the law of the church. People died by this misuse of power.

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2 years ago  ::  May 01, 2012 - 9:32AM #63
Truthwillset
Posts: 1,267

May 1, 2012 -- 9:10AM, mrjordan wrote:


May 1, 2012 -- 8:37AM, AnnOMaly wrote:


So now since the idea that Witnesses did not believe in disfellowshipping has been debunked ...



I see a straw man knocked off his feet, there.


I said the WTS once denounced the practice of disfellowshipping. You haven't debunked that.


As for your other objections, KN has pretty much covered what I was going to say.




How can they denounce disfellowshipping if they have been disfellowshipping people since the 1880's?


The article you posted was about the unlawful use of excommunication as a weapon to hunt down people by putting them outside the law of the church. People died by this misuse of power.




Do you really not see it, or are you just being obtuse?


The WT is quick to be critical of other religions but hypocritically practices the same things themselves.

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2 years ago  ::  May 01, 2012 - 9:56AM #64
mrjordan
Posts: 2,019

Apr 30, 2012 -- 7:28PM, Knowsnothing wrote:


Mr. Jordan, why take it to the extreme?  I don't advocate smoking, drinking, immoral sex, cursing, etc., but if the WT says "don't talk to a DA person, otherwise you are in line", then guess what, you don't have much of a choice but to listen, eh?





My older sister is DA, though we do not get along or talk much, but when we do I am not looked at with a stink-eye. In fact, last night, elders who knew my sister when she was young asked me how she is doing. Elders have never been angry with me for speaking to her or threatened me with removing me from the congregation. While I lived with my aunt who was also a Witness, but I was not associating myself with the Witnesses at the time, she was not told to kick me out. They did not remove her from the congregation. The Witnesses that came to her house to visit with her also talked to me as well.


When my aunt died and I went to her funeral at the kingdom hall everyone in the building of course was a Witness. I at the time, was still not associating myself with the Witnesses. Many Witnesses came up to talk to me and ask how I was doing. The elders did NOT swoop in and shield them from me.

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2 years ago  ::  May 01, 2012 - 10:06AM #65
mrjordan
Posts: 2,019

May 1, 2012 -- 9:32AM, Truthwillset wrote:


May 1, 2012 -- 9:10AM, mrjordan wrote:


May 1, 2012 -- 8:37AM, AnnOMaly wrote:


So now since the idea that Witnesses did not believe in disfellowshipping has been debunked ...



I see a straw man knocked off his feet, there.


I said the WTS once denounced the practice of disfellowshipping. You haven't debunked that.


As for your other objections, KN has pretty much covered what I was going to say.




How can they denounce disfellowshipping if they have been disfellowshipping people since the 1880's?


The article you posted was about the unlawful use of excommunication as a weapon to hunt down people by putting them outside the law of the church. People died by this misuse of power.




Do you really not see it, or are you just being obtuse?


The WT is quick to be critical of other religions but hypocritically practices the same things themselves.




I have never heard of Witnesses disfellowshipping someone then members try to kill the disfellowshipped member like what the article posted was describing. Back in those days if you were not a member of the church you were an enemy and the church allowed those not part of the church to be killed. Those that did not join Hitler's army were ex-communicated and that usually meant death by firing squad. Where do you see the likeness between that and Witnesses?

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2 years ago  ::  May 01, 2012 - 10:10AM #66
Truthwillset
Posts: 1,267

May 1, 2012 -- 9:56AM, mrjordan wrote:


My older sister is DA, though we do not get along or talk much, but when we do I am not looked at with a stink-eye. In fact, last night, elders who knew my sister when she was young asked me how she is doing. Elders have never been angry with me for speaking to her or threatened me with removing me from the congregation. While I lived with my aunt who was also a Witness, but I was not associating myself with the Witnesses at the time, she was not told to kick me out. They did not remove her from the congregation. The Witnesses that came to her house to visit with her also talked to me as well.


When my aunt died and I went to her funeral at the kingdom hall everyone in the building of course was a Witness. I at the time, was still not associating myself with the Witnesses. Many Witnesses came up to talk to me and ask how I was doing. The elders did NOT swoop in and shield them from me.




Would you invite your sister out to eat at a nice restaurant?  Would you invite her over to eat and hang out with the family?  If not, why not?  If so, you know you're not towing the party line and could potentially be subject to sanctions if you persisted. 


Stop sugar-coating the reality...

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2 years ago  ::  May 01, 2012 - 10:11AM #67
Truthwillset
Posts: 1,267

May 1, 2012 -- 10:06AM, mrjordan wrote:


I have never heard of Witnesses disfellowshipping someone then members try to kill the disfellowshipped member like what the article posted was describing. Back in those days if you were not a member of the church you were an enemy and the church allowed those not part of the church to be killed. Those that did not join Hitler's army were ex-communicated and that usually meant death by firing squad. Where do you see the likeness between that and Witnesses?




Red herring much?

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2 years ago  ::  May 01, 2012 - 11:14AM #68
mrjordan
Posts: 2,019

May 1, 2012 -- 10:10AM, Truthwillset wrote:


May 1, 2012 -- 9:56AM, mrjordan wrote:


My older sister is DA, though we do not get along or talk much, but when we do I am not looked at with a stink-eye. In fact, last night, elders who knew my sister when she was young asked me how she is doing. Elders have never been angry with me for speaking to her or threatened me with removing me from the congregation. While I lived with my aunt who was also a Witness, but I was not associating myself with the Witnesses at the time, she was not told to kick me out. They did not remove her from the congregation. The Witnesses that came to her house to visit with her also talked to me as well.


When my aunt died and I went to her funeral at the kingdom hall everyone in the building of course was a Witness. I at the time, was still not associating myself with the Witnesses. Many Witnesses came up to talk to me and ask how I was doing. The elders did NOT swoop in and shield them from me.




Would you invite your sister out to eat at a nice restaurant?  Would you invite her over to eat and hang out with the family?  If not, why not?  If so, you know you're not towing the party line and could potentially be subject to sanctions if you persisted. 


Stop sugar-coating the reality...




We have cook-outs with my father, step-mother, younger sister and older sister about 2 times a year. My yonger sister and older sister are not Witnesses. My older sister came to a cook-out one time high and drunk. My dad asked her to leave and do not come to his house in that state of mind again. I agreed with him because she was acting mean and hateful to everyone. The good news is she never did that again.


Do I spend every weekend with my older sister? No. I don't like being around her when she is doing drugs and getting drunk. I don't like the people that bring her drugs either. I do not want to be near that stuff. I like being around her when she is sober and not high. She has a great sense of humor. Too bad that is not too often these days.


Still the elders do not threaten me or my other family members with removing us from the congregation. However, if I was to start spending a lot of time with my sister and her lifestyle is still the same. What the elders would do is remind me that bad association can spoil useful habits. If I were to start down the same path of drugs and getting drunk like my sister and did not want to repent then yes, it would be announced that I am no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses. As that is what should be done. 


These ideas that Witnesses hate others and threatens everyone with disfellowshipping is simply false.

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2 years ago  ::  May 01, 2012 - 12:22PM #69
Truthwillset
Posts: 1,267

May 1, 2012 -- 11:14AM, mrjordan wrote:


We have cook-outs with my father, step-mother, younger sister and older sister about 2 times a year. My yonger sister and older sister are not Witnesses. My older sister came to a cook-out one time high and drunk. My dad asked her to leave and do not come to his house in that state of mind again. I agreed with him because she was acting mean and hateful to everyone. The good news is she never did that again.


Do I spend every weekend with my older sister? No. I don't like being around her when she is doing drugs and getting drunk. I don't like the people that bring her drugs either. I do not want to be near that stuff. I like being around her when she is sober and not high. She has a great sense of humor. Too bad that is not too often these days.


Still the elders do not threaten me or my other family members with removing us from the congregation. However, if I was to start spending a lot of time with my sister and her lifestyle is still the same. What the elders would do is remind me that bad association can spoil useful habits. If I were to start down the same path of drugs and getting drunk like my sister and did not want to repent then yes, it would be announced that I am no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses. As that is what should be done. 


These ideas that Witnesses hate others and threatens everyone with disfellowshipping is simply false.




If, in fact, your family regularly invites your older disassociated sister to family cook-outs, and your parents are, in fact, witnesses, than you are not following the counsel of the FDS, period. 


Personally, if what you say is true, I applaud such rank disobedience to manmade rules.  However, I think you are sorely mistaken if you think this is condoned by the WTS.  If the congregation elders are aware of such actions and do not make an issue of it, or fail to bring it up (hide it) to WT officials such as the DO or CO, I guess that is their choice.  However, if nothing else, it definitely violates the official position of the WTS as it is clearly written in the publications. 

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2 years ago  ::  May 01, 2012 - 12:33PM #70
Knowsnothing
Posts: 1,150

May 1, 2012 -- 9:56AM, mrjordan wrote:


 While I lived with my aunt who was also a Witness, but I was not associating myself with the Witnesses at the time, she was not told to kick me out. They did not remove her from the congregation. The Witnesses that came to her house to visit with her also talked to me as well.



Come now, Mr. Jordan, you know that's not what we are talking about.  She simply could never be removed for having you at her house, because you were not DF/DA.  You were simply "inactive" in their eyes.  You hadn't formally renounced your religion.


Apples and oranges.


May 1, 2012 -- 9:56AM, mrjordan wrote:


When my aunt died and I went to her funeral at the kingdom hall everyone in the building of course was a Witness. I at the time, was still not associating myself with the Witnesses. Many Witnesses came up to talk to me and ask how I was doing. The elders did NOT swoop in and shield them from me.




The point still stands, your status was as "inactive", not as DF/DA. 

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