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3 years ago  ::  Apr 24, 2012 - 9:31AM #51
SecondSonOfDavid
Posts: 3,344

Apr 23, 2012 -- 9:45PM, MMarcoe wrote:


Apr 23, 2012 -- 6:29PM, SecondSonOfDavid wrote:


When money is taken from people without their consent, then given to people who did not work for it, and that action is performed by a power not explicitly granted in the Constitution to the government, 'stealing' is an appropriate description.





And that's exactly what happens when taxes are cut on the rich. Most rich don't really "work" for their money; rather, they invest it with the help of advisors who suggest investments for them. So one could say that they are stealing when they enjoy tax breaks.


(And most of this investment doesn't create jobs, by the way.)




Nice fairy tale.  But reality is something completely different.


But if we get into this departure from the original topic, this thread will also depart from Christianity Warfare into the Political Screed Domain. 

That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier.
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 24, 2012 - 10:07AM #52
dio
Posts: 5,137

 


I would say mixing Christianity and capitalism doesn't work. It is just wool trying to be pulled over our eyes. They are oil and water, apples and oranges. The only thing Christianity can do with naked capitalism is bridal it a saddle it with responsibility for the poor and needy.


The rich man in the gospel couldn’t give up his wealth and follow Jesus, likewise the capitalists can’t give up their wealth but they can be more heavily taxed.  Maybe the poor and needy will always be with us, but those who have benefited most from the riches of this fair land should bare more of the tax burden than the working poor and middle classes.



For example; how can a Christian support subsidizing  the oil industry when there are poor and needy among us?



 


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3 years ago  ::  Apr 24, 2012 - 10:16AM #53
davelaw40
Posts: 19,669

Because having affordable fuel and heating helps the poor?

Non Quis, Sed Quid
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 24, 2012 - 10:35AM #54
amcolph
Posts: 17,982

Apr 24, 2012 -- 9:29AM, SecondSonOfDavid wrote:


Apr 23, 2012 -- 7:13PM, amcolph wrote:


Apr 23, 2012 -- 6:29PM, SecondSonOfDavid wrote:


When money is taken from people without their consent, then given to people who did not work for it, and that action is performed by a power not explicitly granted in the Constitution to the government, 'stealing' is an appropriate description.




So you are a citizen of this country against your will?




Interesting take.  As a U.S. citizen, I have every right to dissent and to express my dissent.


At least, that's an American thing.  Where are YOU from, comrade?




A country in which the government exists by the consent of the governed. If you think that federal taxation is money being stolen from you without your consent, then you are obviously not one of us and must be here involuntarily.

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 24, 2012 - 10:44AM #55
SecondSonOfDavid
Posts: 3,344

Apr 24, 2012 -- 10:35AM, amcolph wrote:


Apr 24, 2012 -- 9:29AM, SecondSonOfDavid wrote:


Apr 23, 2012 -- 7:13PM, amcolph wrote:


Apr 23, 2012 -- 6:29PM, SecondSonOfDavid wrote:


When money is taken from people without their consent, then given to people who did not work for it, and that action is performed by a power not explicitly granted in the Constitution to the government, 'stealing' is an appropriate description.




So you are a citizen of this country against your will?




Interesting take.  As a U.S. citizen, I have every right to dissent and to express my dissent.


At least, that's an American thing.  Where are YOU from, comrade?




A country in which the government exists by the consent of the governed. If you think that federal taxation is money being stolen from you without your consent, then you are obviously not one of us and must be here involuntarily.




Absolute and total BS.  Turn that around and by definition, if you complain about tax breaks given to someone, you're not an American.



Get over yourself.  Better yet, go take a Civics class. 

That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier.
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 24, 2012 - 10:51AM #56
tfvespasianus
Posts: 2,105

Apr 23, 2012 -- 9:05PM, davelaw40 wrote:


yes, we would prefer to be citizens of the Republic of Texas




On some days, I actually agree with this. That is, I have a passport and would have no problem 'breaking up, but still being friends'. I am guessing (but do not know) that there would be many people in Dallas proper (not to mention Austin... would you guys pick a new capitol?) that'd be unhappy, but historical precedent would point to partition never being easy. Of course, I also think after TX leaves, CA should probably be split between the north and south (I want to keep things at 50 for the time being).

 

This is all something of idle speculation/wishing. It is all contingent on 'if I had the power'. Speaking of which, how political (and not religious) would this thread have to be before it was locked/moved? 

Ubi solitudinem faciunt pacem appellant - Tacitus
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 24, 2012 - 10:55AM #57
amcolph
Posts: 17,982

Apr 24, 2012 -- 10:44AM, SecondSonOfDavid wrote:


 


Absolute and total BS.  Turn that around and by definition, if you complain about tax breaks given to someone, you're not an American.



 




LOL!


Indeed I do complain about certain tax breaks and you and your ilk have made it clear long since that you don't think I'm an American--wrong church, wrong political party, etc.


But let me make sure I understand you:


Is all federal taxation theft, or only that part of it which goes to aid the poor?

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 24, 2012 - 11:01AM #58
SecondSonOfDavid
Posts: 3,344

Apr 24, 2012 -- 10:55AM, amcolph wrote:


Apr 24, 2012 -- 10:44AM, SecondSonOfDavid wrote:


 


Absolute and total BS.  Turn that around and by definition, if you complain about tax breaks given to someone, you're not an American.



 




LOL!


Indeed I do complain about certain tax breaks and you and your ilk have made it clear long since that you don't think I'm an American--wrong church, wrong political party, etc.


But let me make sure I understand you:


Is all federal taxation theft, or only that part of it which goes to aid the poor?




First off, I am an individualist amcolph.  So kindly do not group me with a conveniently stereotyped target, and I will give you the same courtesy.


The issue is how government acts, amcolph.  


Defense is constitutionally mandated.  We may differ on where and how war may be fought, but there is no question National defense is constitutional.


Social Security, Medicare, Welfare, and all that?  That's something else.  The Constitution does not mention ANY of those programs, and while the courts may support them, we know the courts have been wrong before.  


 


That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier.
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 24, 2012 - 11:07AM #59
lope
Posts: 11,796

Apr 24, 2012 -- 10:07AM, dio wrote:


 


I would say mixing Christianity and capitalism doesn't work. It is just wool trying to be pulled over our eyes. They are oil and water, apples and oranges. The only thing Christianity can do with naked capitalism is bridal it a saddle it with responsibility for the poor and needy.


The rich man in the gospel couldn’t give up his wealth and follow Jesus, likewise the capitalists can’t give up their wealth but they can be more heavily taxed.  Maybe the poor and needy will always be with us, but those who have benefited most from the riches of this fair land should bare more of the tax burden than the working poor and middle classes.



For example; how can a Christian support subsidizing  the oil industry when there are poor and needy among us?



 





The rich man could have given up his wealth and followed Jesus, but he chose not to do that.  Communism or socialism and Christianty are no more mixable than Capitalism and Christianity.  Christianity is about helping the poor.  It is not about taking money from someone else by force to help the poor.  It is also not about borrowing oneself into oblivion financially to help the poor.

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 24, 2012 - 11:11AM #60
lope
Posts: 11,796

Apr 24, 2012 -- 8:10AM, amcolph wrote:


Apr 23, 2012 -- 8:13PM, dblad wrote:


Apr 23, 2012 -- 7:13PM, amcolph wrote:


Apr 23, 2012 -- 6:29PM, SecondSonOfDavid wrote:


When money is taken from people without their consent, then given to people who did not work for it, and that action is performed by a power not explicitly granted in the Constitution to the government, 'stealing' is an appropriate description.




So you are a citizen of this country against your will?




Wow! I guess he got you there 2ndSon!!! If you don't like the SSoA, too bad, cause we gonna give all yo money to the drug addicts and 3rd generation unemployed.



 




I suppose you have a point.  the problem with using government money to help the poor is that you take the risk that a handout might accidently be given to an undeserving poor person while an undeserving rich person has to go without.




The problem with using government money to help the poor is until we get control of our spending, all government money we use to help the poor is borrowed--not money available to us to use for anything including helping the poor.

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