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Switch to Forum Live View Lyin' 'bout denyin'
2 years ago  ::  Apr 25, 2012 - 3:01PM #71
Seefan
Posts: 3,918

Apr 25, 2012 -- 9:54AM, jlb32168 wrote:

I can understand blocking someone who is continuously abusive, but that’s a crap shoot as well since I’ve been mystified by what some people who post here regard as “being abusive”.  Of course, I taught in the inner-city for ten years so my skin might be a little more concrete than most and I have one poster who is blocked; I blocked that poster because I always felt the need to respond to his simply asinine posts – posts whose violent distortion of papal documents was gargantuan.  I felt he was more of a troll so I blocked that poster to “starve the troll”.  It seems to have worked. 



Not to derail this site but a quick question if I may!  If one finds it necessary to block someone as you have (in the years I've been here fortunately I have not) and it seemed the only choice, would the person blocked receive a notification or would that person just find his/her posts being ignored?  Just wonderin'


And thanks in advance for your reply ...

Today the one overriding need is unity and harmony among the beloved of the Lord, for they should have among them but one heart and soul and should, so far as in them lieth, unitedly withstand the hostility of all the peoples of the world ... (Baha'i Writings)
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 26, 2012 - 7:53AM #72
jlb32168
Posts: 13,242

Apr 25, 2012 -- 3:01PM, Seefan wrote:

If one finds it necessary to block someone as you have (in the years I've been here fortunately I have not) and it seemed the only choice, would the person blocked receive a notification or would that person just find his/her posts being ignored?  Just wonderin'


I received no notification.  I just noticed that my posts that directly rebutted certain arguments were simply ingored by one poster.


That's okay, of course, since it lets me have the last word and merely gives others the impression that the blocker can't address arguments that rebut his/her point.

Victim of this, victim of that, your mama’s too thin and your daddy’s too fat, get over it! - the Eagles
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 26, 2012 - 8:13AM #73
Adelphe
Posts: 28,707

Apr 25, 2012 -- 8:22AM, jlb32168 wrote:


I am the center of the material universe.  Obviously you've not been informed of this fact.




LOL


You're cracking me up lately--seriously.


I always definitely knew you had a great sense of humor (from ECD, Cat D, etc.) but I've been literally laughing out loud and a lot at some of your stuff over the past few days.


Anyway, just a side comment.


Carry on...

Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason, my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and I will not retract anything, for to go against conscience would be neither right nor safe.  Here I stand.  I can do no other.  God help me.  Amen.
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 26, 2012 - 8:36AM #74
Seefan
Posts: 3,918

Apr 26, 2012 -- 7:53AM, jlb32168 wrote:


Apr 25, 2012 -- 3:01PM, Seefan wrote:

If one finds it necessary to block someone as you have (in the years I've been here fortunately I have not) and it seemed the only choice, would the person blocked receive a notification or would that person just find his/her posts being ignored?  Just wonderin'


I received no notification.  I just noticed that my posts that directly rebutted certain arguments were simply ingored by one poster.


That's okay, of course, since it lets me have the last word and merely gives others the impression that the blocker can't address arguments that rebut his/her point.





lol  lol  thanks and good point ...

Today the one overriding need is unity and harmony among the beloved of the Lord, for they should have among them but one heart and soul and should, so far as in them lieth, unitedly withstand the hostility of all the peoples of the world ... (Baha'i Writings)
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 26, 2012 - 8:39AM #75
Seefan
Posts: 3,918

Apr 26, 2012 -- 8:13AM, Adelphe wrote:


Apr 25, 2012 -- 8:22AM, jlb32168 wrote:


I am the center of the material universe.  Obviously you've not been informed of this fact.




LOL


You're cracking me up lately--seriously.


I always definitely knew you had a great sense of humor (from ECD, Cat D, etc.) but I've been literally laughing out loud and a lot at some of your stuff over the past few days.


Anyway, just a side comment.


Carry on...





I concur Adelphe about his sense of humour but I don't think you'll see him carry on.  He has far too many serious conversations in progress ...


 

Today the one overriding need is unity and harmony among the beloved of the Lord, for they should have among them but one heart and soul and should, so far as in them lieth, unitedly withstand the hostility of all the peoples of the world ... (Baha'i Writings)
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 26, 2012 - 10:15AM #76
Kwinters
Posts: 21,914

Apr 25, 2012 -- 2:56PM, Ruhi19 wrote:


Apr 25, 2012 -- 6:06AM, Kwinters wrote:


How do you know there is no reaction? 



Cite the passage where this denial is addressed. The story continues as if this event never happened.


Peter is never depicted as confessing.  He is never forgiven in the texts.  It is as if the tale of the predicted denial and Peter's denial were an independent story that was gloamed onto the other passion narrative traditions.





You are looking for an exact text and most people have been responding with the impllications of the entire NT. You are correct that the Scriptures do not say explicitly that there was a reaction from Jesus beyond the look that Jesus gave Peter in Luke 22:61. The text doesn't tell us if this look constitutes punishment, disappointment or forgiveness. 






Compare the consequences for Judas and for Peter.


Judas never denied Jesus, and yet some of the texts suggest he died as a result.


In consequence, Peter betrays Jesus by denying him he goes back on his commitment that he would not deny him and yet he is made the rock upon which Jesus would make his church?!


Whose denial was worthy of death moreso than the other?

Jesus had two dads, and he turned out alright.~ Andy Gussert

“Feminism has fought no wars. It has killed no opponents. It has set up no concentration camps, starved no enemies, practiced no cruelties. Its battles have been for education, for the vote, for better working conditions…for safety on the streets…for child care, for social welfare…for rape crisis centers, women’s refuges, reforms in the law.

If someone says, “Oh, I’m not a feminist,” I ask, “Why, what’s your problem?”

Dale Spender
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 26, 2012 - 10:19AM #77
Kwinters
Posts: 21,914

Apr 25, 2012 -- 9:12AM, jonny42 wrote:


Apr 25, 2012 -- 6:03AM, Kwinters wrote:


Then one has to decide if these texts are to be read as allegory and have no basis in historical event or read in another way.


But even an allegorical reading does not resolve the contradiction between the threatened consequences of denial and the lack of any consequences for Peter. 




What does Jesus say would be the consequences for those who deny him?   That he would deny them before the Father.


You demand that Jesus should have been shown meting out the consequences of denial during Peter's lifetime, but Jesus does not say when or where the consequences would take place.  In fact, it is likely that the consequences are exhibited in the afterlife at the final judgment, as are most of the consequences Jesus warns of. 




So Jesus would deny Peter after he'd made him his rock?


Again, the teaching on denials, Peter denying he was a follower of Jesus, and there being a complete lack of resolution of this direct betrayal point to a gap in the narrative.


This may be evidence of mulitple, unconnected stories being pieced together and the contradictions within them going unresolved because no one noticed them when they strung the stories together.

Jesus had two dads, and he turned out alright.~ Andy Gussert

“Feminism has fought no wars. It has killed no opponents. It has set up no concentration camps, starved no enemies, practiced no cruelties. Its battles have been for education, for the vote, for better working conditions…for safety on the streets…for child care, for social welfare…for rape crisis centers, women’s refuges, reforms in the law.

If someone says, “Oh, I’m not a feminist,” I ask, “Why, what’s your problem?”

Dale Spender
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 26, 2012 - 11:51AM #78
Ruhi19
Posts: 535

Apr 26, 2012 -- 10:15AM, Kwinters wrote:


 


Compare the consequences for Judas and for Peter.


Judas never denied Jesus, and yet some of the texts suggest he died as a result.


In consequence, Peter betrays Jesus by denying him he goes back on his commitment that he would not deny him and yet he is made the rock upon which Jesus would make his church?!


Whose denial was worthy of death moreso than the other?





Judas' sin was betrayal.  He not only separated himself from Jesus (not believing in him) but also he set in motion the events leading to the killing of Jesus.  The death of Judas was at his own hand because of his remorse.  The text does not say whether or not his remorse was because he believed that Jesus was from God again or just that he was sorry he had been the instrument of the death of Jesus, someone who was "innocent" as the Scripture says.  One might say: how do we know that Judas did not believe in Jesus as a followup question.  I would say that one would not betray Someone that one believed to be the Christ (i.e., Messiah) into the hands of His enemy if one believed.   


On the other hand, the denial of Christ by Peter is a form of dissemination (to hide his belief and affiliation under a false appearance).  That is, the Scripture does not say that Peter rejected belief in Jesus as the Christ.  It says that he denied "knowing" or being "affiliated" with him.  Nowhere in the text does it say that Peter rejected his belief.  It is the "belief" that is the rock on which the Church is built.  Personally, I think that the denial shows that although the belief of those in Christianity is strong, the implications of that belief are not fully understood.  In other words, it can be compared to the belief of the Jews in Moses and the results of their denial that Jesus fulfilled their prophecies (i.e., John 5:46).  


As for the choice of Peter as the rock/foundation: According to the Scripture, Peter is the only one who hung around to determine what would happen to Jesus.  The other disciples went home or at least elsewhere.  You could say that Peter was the best there was at that time, unless you refer to the women who believed in Christ (Mary and Mary Magdalene).  However, it was not yet time for men to accept women in leadership roles.  That is, men (and some women also) could not acknowledge the capacity of women equal to themselves. So the steadfastness of the women is ignored in the Scriptures. 

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