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2 years ago  ::  May 01, 2012 - 3:21PM #291
nieciedo
Posts: 5,617

May 1, 2012 -- 3:12PM, nieciedo wrote:


May 1, 2012 -- 3:03PM, jlb32168 wrote:


According to Christianity, “the gods of the gentiles are demons, but YHWH made the heavens”. If the gods of the gentiles are demons and one worships the gods of the gentiles then one worships demons.  If the worship of demons severs the lifeline between man and God and a person worships these demons then he will sever the lifeline between him/her and God and others that follow his religion will do the same.  That leads to suffering in eternity.





What is the citation for this doctrine?


 




PS 96.5 says that the "For all the gods of the nations are idols, but the LORD made the heavens."


Elsewhere, in numerous locations, the Scriptures state that idols are lifeless things that do not see or speak or hear.

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2 years ago  ::  May 01, 2012 - 3:39PM #292
mainecaptain
Posts: 21,783

May 1, 2012 -- 3:11PM, redshifted wrote:


May 1, 2012 -- 1:11PM, mainecaptain wrote:


That is what is so scary. That type, believes evil, is a form of perfection. A good thing.  As long as they are on the same side of the one doing the evil. They are all for it. Will defend it and follow it. Worship and grovel before it. That makes this world a very dangerous place.


Because an evil god is so admired.




Yeah, I feel disgusting just being in here. I've reached my limit of seeing people justify the butchering of babies and such. My only consolation is that none of it actually happened. 




I agree, and that too is my consolation.

A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. Aristotle
Never discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Plato..
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives" Jackie Robinson
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2 years ago  ::  May 01, 2012 - 4:46PM #293
Ed.W
Posts: 9,434

May 1, 2012 -- 3:39PM, mainecaptain wrote:


May 1, 2012 -- 3:11PM, redshifted wrote:



Yeah, I feel disgusting just being in here. I've reached my limit of seeing people justify the butchering of babies and such. My only consolation is that none of it actually happened. 




I agree, and that too is my consolation.




You two Pro Life?  Unfortunately on that subject, I'm not able to share that consolation.


Have you got anything I can sink my teeth into?
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2 years ago  ::  May 01, 2012 - 4:54PM #294
nieciedo
Posts: 5,617

May 1, 2012 -- 4:46PM, Ed.W wrote:


May 1, 2012 -- 3:39PM, mainecaptain wrote:


May 1, 2012 -- 3:11PM, redshifted wrote:



Yeah, I feel disgusting just being in here. I've reached my limit of seeing people justify the butchering of babies and such. My only consolation is that none of it actually happened. 




I agree, and that too is my consolation.




You two Pro Life?  Unfortunately on that subject, I'm not able to share that consolation.





It seems clear from Israelite history in the Scriptures that the genocides were never actually carried out. That explains their persistent failure to keep clear of idolatry and their repeated violation of the covenant leading to the Exile.

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2 years ago  ::  May 01, 2012 - 5:07PM #295
jlb32168
Posts: 13,273

May 1, 2012 -- 3:21PM, nieciedo wrote:

PS 96.5 says that the "For all the gods of the nations are idols [emph. original], but the LORD made the heavens." Elsewhere, in numerous locations, the Scriptures state that idols are lifeless things that do not see or speak or hear.


I’m Greek/Russian/Eastern Orthodox and we use the Septuagint.  In it, the same verse is (translated into English) “For all the gods of the heathen are demons: but the Lord made the heavens.”

Victim of this, victim of that, your mama’s too thin and your daddy’s too fat, get over it! - the Eagles
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2 years ago  ::  May 01, 2012 - 5:13PM #296
nieciedo
Posts: 5,617

May 1, 2012 -- 5:07PM, jlb32168 wrote:


May 1, 2012 -- 3:21PM, nieciedo wrote:

PS 96.5 says that the "For all the gods of the nations are idols [emph. original], but the LORD made the heavens." Elsewhere, in numerous locations, the Scriptures state that idols are lifeless things that do not see or speak or hear.


I’m Greek/Russian/Eastern Orthodox and we use the Septuagint.  In it, the same verse is (translated into English) “For all the gods of the heathen are demons: but the Lord made the heavens.”





Interesting. I will need to look into this. I am curious if the Septuagint translates 'elil as daimon anywhere else.


I'm also curious to explore when exactly daimon acquired its "demonic" connotation. In Classical Greek, it meant "supernatural being" or "spirit."

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2 years ago  ::  May 01, 2012 - 5:18PM #297
jlb32168
Posts: 13,273

May 1, 2012 -- 4:54PM, nieciedo wrote:

It seems clear from Israelite history in the Scriptures that the genocides were never actually carried out. That explains their persistent failure to keep clear of idolatry and their repeated violation of the covenant leading to the Exile.


I agree with you, Nieciedo.  It would seem that this entire section on being mortified and in terror over God’s followers is making much ado about nothing.  


God no longer commands His followers to slay entire nations and God won’t be making such commands ever again so being aghast, mortified, and SHOCKED seems silly and founded more upon an peculiar desire/need to feel superior to others.


whatever blows your dress up I suppose . . .

Victim of this, victim of that, your mama’s too thin and your daddy’s too fat, get over it! - the Eagles
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2 years ago  ::  May 01, 2012 - 5:41PM #298
Adelphe
Posts: 28,707

May 1, 2012 -- 9:55AM, Blü wrote:


Adelphe


Yes, they are moral absolutes.  They are today summed up in "The Two."  The 10 is what it means, in part, to obey the 2.


Then why doesn't Yahweh honor his father and his mother?



He does--YHWH Son most certainly honors YHWH Father.



And never mention his divorce?



He did--Levirate marriage.  Exactly according to law.



I'm of the opinion that YHWH adheres to His own laws.  That's because they are simply an extension of Him--His very being--and His perfection.  They're not "under Him" and they're not "over Him."  They are because He is and that's the way He is.


The OP and the OT blow that one out of the water.




No, they don't.  Not if you define the words according to their context--Scripture. 


Really, is there anything there in the 10 and 2 that Daddy-Blu wouldn't or didn't advise his own children of--for their own good (putting yourself in the place of God)?

Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason, my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and I will not retract anything, for to go against conscience would be neither right nor safe.  Here I stand.  I can do no other.  God help me.  Amen.
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2 years ago  ::  May 01, 2012 - 5:44PM #299
Adelphe
Posts: 28,707

May 1, 2012 -- 10:09AM, Blü wrote:


Adelphe


YHWH (again) is omnisicent.  Adolf Hitler was not.


As you know, if Yahweh's omniscient then you have no free will.



lol



But leaving that aside, omniscience isn't relevant to jlb's argument.  Instead it requires the critic to admit that he, the critic, can't absolutely show that Yahweh wasn't acting for the greater good.


And the identical argument works for Adolf.  And for every other crook.




Let me understand:  are you saying that perhaps God inspired Hitler for "some greater good"?

Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason, my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and I will not retract anything, for to go against conscience would be neither right nor safe.  Here I stand.  I can do no other.  God help me.  Amen.
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2 years ago  ::  May 01, 2012 - 5:48PM #300
nieciedo
Posts: 5,617

May 1, 2012 -- 5:18PM, jlb32168 wrote:


I agree with you, Nieciedo.  It would seem that this entire section on being mortified and in terror over God’s followers is making much ado about nothing.  


God no longer commands His followers to slay entire nations and God won’t be making such commands ever again so being aghast, mortified, and SHOCKED seems silly and founded more upon an peculiar desire/need to feel superior to others.


whatever blows your dress up I suppose . . .




I can understand the complaint. All too often people have killed a lot of other people based on what they believe that God wants them to do, but in none of these cases have they actually done so with divine mandate. If the Biblical account is to be believed, God authorized Israelites (and only Israelites) at a specific time (and only in at a specific time) to conquer and kill specific tribes (and only specific tribes). No more and no less. Why He did it (if indeed He did) is attributed to divine justice - not just for their religious sins of idolatry but for their sexual immorality and social injustice, too. These are the same reasons that God subjected Israel itself to exile, slaughter, and destruction.


This example cannot be extended to justify any other military acts, and the New Covenant has superceded all of this (which is not even applicable to Christians) anyway.

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