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3 years ago  ::  Apr 18, 2012 - 8:39AM #11
Rgurley4
Posts: 8,819

ANSWER:


1. GOD is without flaw or sin.


2. Self-centered and Imperfect Man (who always falls short of God's perfection) views Biblical history through un-spiritual and unwise eyes.


1 Samuel 16:7 (NASB)
...for God sees not as man sees, for man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart.”


Job 13:16
“This also will be my salvation, For a godless man may not come before His presence.


1 Corinthians 1:20
Where is the wise man?
Where is the scribe?
Where is the debater of this age?
Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?


3 John 1:11
Beloved, do not imitate what is evil, but what is good.
The one who does good is of God;
the one who does evil has not seen God.

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 18, 2012 - 9:46AM #12
Blü
Posts: 25,070

Elias


Hitler did the same also, but God didn't spared his life; Was Hitler a good man?


You appear to be arguing that Hitler followed Yahweh's example and was killed for it.  What kind of justice is that?


I guess He did it since people love evil?


The OT contains several statements in which Yahweh asserts he sends evil.  

If you send evil, do you remain sinless because you follow Yahweh's example?

I'll be kind and imagine the rest of your remarks are intended flippantly.



The striking thing about your answer is your failure to address the OP's questions.

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 18, 2012 - 9:48AM #13
Blü
Posts: 25,070

jlb


That is the issue – what sin actually is.


I expressly dealt with that in the OP.



I would simply have to accept that this action accomplishes some inscrutable good.


So in your view, it's moral for humans to violate morality when they believe the end justifies the means, yes?  They're just following Yahweh's example, right?  And if their purposes are inscrutable, well, so are Yahweh's, right?


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3 years ago  ::  Apr 18, 2012 - 9:53AM #14
Blü
Posts: 25,070

Rgurley


The title falsely assumes the all-good, all-perfect TRI-UNE GOD can fall short of His own perfection.


No.  All the title assumes is that the deeds which the bible attributes to Yahweh form part of the Christian understanding of Yahweh.


failure to Biblically or otherwise theologically DEFINE :Sin


The OP offers a definition of sin from a credible source.  You don't offer any alternative definition, let alone a credible one.


And as the OP openly discusses, the definition of 'sin' isn't necessarily the end of the matter.


failure to Biblically or otherwise  theologically DEFINE :"morality"


'Morality' is viewing behavior from the point of view of whether it's right or wrong.  An honest and informed conscience is generally taken as a reasonable guide.


improperly and futilely trying to COMPARE


So you think one moral code applies to humans, and a different moral code, or none, applies to Yahweh?

Which means that in your view, not only is there no absolute moral law but humans can't trust their consciences to tell them what conduct is right and what's wrong.

An interesting take for a Christian.


a crude and lewd "parade of the horribles" in an attempt to confuse perfect spiritual JUSTICE with HUMAN nice-nice standards.


So you're totally comfortable when someone orders mass rape.

Another interesting take for a Christian.


GOD is without flaw or sin. Your premise, questions, and this thread is rediculous.


Phooey.  The morally insupportable deeds of Yahweh are set out specifically in the bible.  Your excuses from dogmatism are just putting your hands over your eyes and shouting NYAH NYAH NYAH YOU CAN'T MAKE ME LOOK!

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 18, 2012 - 10:28AM #15
jlb32168
Posts: 13,397

Apr 18, 2012 -- 9:48AM, Blü wrote:

jlb, I expressly dealt with that in the OP.


I know.  I presented a different definition for “sin”, one that I think is the correct one.


And try “particularly” instead of “expressly” the next time.


Apr 18, 2012 -- 9:48AM, Blü wrote:

So in your view, it's moral for humans to violate morality when they believe the end justifies the means, yes?


Your question assumes that morality is absolute.  It isn’t.  Four hundred years ago, turning a profit was considered immoral by many if not most people living in MA.  Not allowing children to work in factories was considered immoral because it made them slothful.


To believe that our morality supercedes other moralities is a case of what I’ve heard termed “cultural imperialism”.


Apr 18, 2012 -- 9:48AM, Blü wrote:

They're just following Yahweh's example, right? And if their purposes are inscrutable, well, so are Yahweh's, right?


In the cases you’ve cited, the scripture says that YHWH directly revealed His will 3500 years ago by speaking directly to the parties involved.


At my last reading of the news, the deity hasn’t audibly and visibly revealed to an entire nation that they are to exterminate an entirely different nation in toto; furthermore, I’d question anyone who said that such revelation had occurred to him/her privately.  Actually, I would resign any such revelation to what is called prelest in Russian (spiritual delusion).

Victim of this, victim of that, your mama’s too thin and your daddy’s too fat, get over it! - the Eagles
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 18, 2012 - 11:17AM #16
Blü
Posts: 25,070

jlb


Just to get this clear, you think the end justifies the means, right?

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 18, 2012 - 11:22AM #17
davelaw40
Posts: 19,669

what jlb said was that if God ordered it; he would accept it

Non Quis, Sed Quid
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 18, 2012 - 11:37AM #18
redshifted
Posts: 2,283

Apr 18, 2012 -- 11:22AM, davelaw40 wrote:


what jlb said was that if God ordered it; he would accept it




Yikes. Scary stuff this divine command theory. If God said to eat your babies, you people would do it? 

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 18, 2012 - 11:47AM #19
davelaw40
Posts: 19,669

only if my name was Andrea Yates

Non Quis, Sed Quid
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 18, 2012 - 11:58AM #20
jlb32168
Posts: 13,397

Apr 18, 2012 -- 11:17AM, Blü wrote:

jlb, Just to get this clear, you think the end justifies the means, right?


Nope


Apr 18, 2012 -- 11:22AM, davelaw40 wrote:

what jlb said was that if God ordered it; he would accept it


What Dave said.

Victim of this, victim of that, your mama’s too thin and your daddy’s too fat, get over it! - the Eagles
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