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2 years ago  ::  May 04, 2012 - 4:50PM #331
Paladinsf
Posts: 3,660

"But until I do, I'll just say that adjective "wise" is used a bit.... ironically.  It means those that deem themselves wise in and of themselves, as you do."


And you know this how? Oh, that's right god he done told ya in his magic way and ya jus knows now.





It's the same reasoning you'd use in a foreign penal system, out of reach of the ACLU.



Ah, but I wouldn't. Unlike you my integrity actually MEANS something. So I will not to suck up to ANYBODY/THING. Not now not then not ever.



The World is divided into armed camps ready to commit genocide just because we can't agree on whose fairy tales to believe.
The belief in supernatural religion will kill us all if we don't outgrow it.

When I first read "End of Faith" I thought Sam went too far. The more I read and listen to these "believers" the more I wonder if maybe he wasn't right after all.
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2 years ago  ::  May 04, 2012 - 5:02PM #332
Ed.W
Posts: 9,442

May 4, 2012 -- 4:50PM, Paladinsf wrote:


"But until I do, I'll just say that adjective "wise" is used a bit.... ironically.  It means those that deem themselves wise in and of themselves, as you do."


And you know this how? Oh, that's right god he done told ya in his magic way and ya jus knows now.





It's the same reasoning you'd use in a foreign penal system, out of reach of the ACLU.



Ah, but I wouldn't. Unlike you my integrity actually MEANS something. So I will not to suck up to ANYBODY/THING. Not now not then not ever.






Seems obvious to me that there is some sarcasm/irony attached to the appellation "wise" and "prudent".


I never said reason was worthless.  What makes you think you have the ability to reason perfectly anyway?


People can "reason" their way down the wrong path in good faith, just due to an error in judgment.



Your problem is that you are setting up Reason as the battle cry of non-belief.  And now it's failing you, because belief is entirely reasonable.


You are the one that equates Reason to non-belief (because it gives you the impression of having a thought-out position and is a back-handed insult to believers).


But that's your problem, if your construction doesn't hold up in all situations...  Reasonable people discard constructions that fail them.

‘Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage.’ --Lao Tzu
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2 years ago  ::  May 04, 2012 - 6:44PM #333
Paladinsf
Posts: 3,660

May 4, 2012 -- 5:02PM, Ed.W wrote:

May 4, 2012 -- 4:50PM, Paladinsf wrote:


"But until I do, I'll just say that adjective "wise" is used a bit.... ironically.  It means those that deem themselves wise in and of themselves, as you do."


And you know this how? Oh, that's right god he done told ya in his magic way and ya jus knows now.





It's the same reasoning you'd use in a foreign penal system, out of reach of the ACLU.



Ah, but I wouldn't. Unlike you my integrity actually MEANS something. So I will not to suck up to ANYBODY/THING. Not now not then not ever.






Seems obvious to me that there is some sarcasm/irony attached to the appellation "wise" and "prudent".


I never said reason was worthless.  What makes you think you have the ability to reason perfectly anyway?


People can "reason" their way down the wrong path in good faith, just due to an error in judgment.



Your problem is that you are setting up Reason as the battle cry of non-belief.  And now it's failing you, because belief is entirely reasonable.


You are the one that equates Reason to non-belief (because it gives you the impression of having a thought-out position and is a back-handed insult to believers).


But that's your problem, if your construction doesn't hold up in all situations...  Reasonable people discard constructions that fail them.


So you don't actually have an answer. The contradiction stands unrefuted.


And the absurdity obvious to all.

The World is divided into armed camps ready to commit genocide just because we can't agree on whose fairy tales to believe.
The belief in supernatural religion will kill us all if we don't outgrow it.

When I first read "End of Faith" I thought Sam went too far. The more I read and listen to these "believers" the more I wonder if maybe he wasn't right after all.
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2 years ago  ::  May 04, 2012 - 7:35PM #334
Ed.W
Posts: 9,442

May 4, 2012 -- 6:44PM, Paladinsf wrote:

May 4, 2012 -- 5:02PM, Ed.W wrote:


May 4, 2012 -- 4:50PM, Paladinsf wrote:


"But until I do, I'll just say that adjective "wise" is used a bit.... ironically.  It means those that deem themselves wise in and of themselves, as you do."


And you know this how? Oh, that's right god he done told ya in his magic way and ya jus knows now.





It's the same reasoning you'd use in a foreign penal system, out of reach of the ACLU.



Ah, but I wouldn't. Unlike you my integrity actually MEANS something. So I will not to suck up to ANYBODY/THING. Not now not then not ever.






Seems obvious to me that there is some sarcasm/irony attached to the appellation "wise" and "prudent".


I never said reason was worthless.  What makes you think you have the ability to reason perfectly anyway?


People can "reason" their way down the wrong path in good faith, just due to an error in judgment.



Your problem is that you are setting up Reason as the battle cry of non-belief.  And now it's failing you, because belief is entirely reasonable.


You are the one that equates Reason to non-belief (because it gives you the impression of having a thought-out position and is a back-handed insult to believers).


But that's your problem, if your construction doesn't hold up in all situations...  Reasonable people discard constructions that fail them.




So you don't actually have an answer. The contradiction stands unrefuted.


And the absurdity obvious to all.




Those who were wise and prudent were prideful and worldly, respectively.


Pride and worldliness are anathema to God's plan.  It is the humble that are rewarded in God's plan.


Now if there were humble scholars (such as Nicodemus) they were not included in the generalization.

‘Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage.’ --Lao Tzu
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2 years ago  ::  May 05, 2012 - 12:58AM #335
Paladinsf
Posts: 3,660

May 4, 2012 -- 7:35PM, Ed.W wrote:

May 4, 2012 -- 6:44PM, Paladinsf wrote:

May 4, 2012 -- 5:02PM, Ed.W wrote:


May 4, 2012 -- 4:50PM, Paladinsf wrote:


"But until I do, I'll just say that adjective "wise" is used a bit.... ironically.  It means those that deem themselves wise in and of themselves, as you do."


And you know this how? Oh, that's right god he done told ya in his magic way and ya jus knows now.





It's the same reasoning you'd use in a foreign penal system, out of reach of the ACLU.



Ah, but I wouldn't. Unlike you my integrity actually MEANS something. So I will not to suck up to ANYBODY/THING. Not now not then not ever.






Seems obvious to me that there is some sarcasm/irony attached to the appellation "wise" and "prudent".


I never said reason was worthless.  What makes you think you have the ability to reason perfectly anyway?


People can "reason" their way down the wrong path in good faith, just due to an error in judgment.



Your problem is that you are setting up Reason as the battle cry of non-belief.  And now it's failing you, because belief is entirely reasonable.


You are the one that equates Reason to non-belief (because it gives you the impression of having a thought-out position and is a back-handed insult to believers).


But that's your problem, if your construction doesn't hold up in all situations...  Reasonable people discard constructions that fail them.




So you don't actually have an answer. The contradiction stands unrefuted.


And the absurdity obvious to all.




Those who were wise and prudent were prideful and worldly, respectively.


Pride and worldliness are anathema to God's plan.  It is the humble that are rewarded in God's plan.


Now if there were humble scholars (such as Nicodemus) they were not included in the generalization.


And this has what to do with the contradiction?


MORE evidence that simply believing this stuff corrodes reasoning ability.

The World is divided into armed camps ready to commit genocide just because we can't agree on whose fairy tales to believe.
The belief in supernatural religion will kill us all if we don't outgrow it.

When I first read "End of Faith" I thought Sam went too far. The more I read and listen to these "believers" the more I wonder if maybe he wasn't right after all.
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2 years ago  ::  May 05, 2012 - 1:48AM #336
Ed.W
Posts: 9,442

I'm not sure what you think is a contradiction.   Oh you mean the "contradiction" between Adelphe and me.  I had to scroll back up and see what the heck you were talking about.  There is no contradiction between Adelphe and me.


She is talking about the subject of this thread, and you and I are not.



You see, what happened was you lifted a post of mine from another thread ("The Trinity" I think is where it came from), and for some lame-brain reason brought it over here and used that post I made elsewhere to respond to something Adelphe had said here on a different subject (see post #328). 


I was pretty ticked when I saw that this morning, we used to have rules about dragging posts from one thread to another. 


But I went ahead and responded to your bad form rather than to light into you.  Since it was something I had written, I thought you wanted me to respond to it.  But actually you were flinging my post from another thread at Adelphe, which she rightly ignored.


Now, you for some reason, you expect Adelphe's on topic post--that was posted ahead of your careless posting-- to apply to my post that was from another thread.  Well of course there is not necessarily any reason that they should apply to one another.


Mystery (or "contradiction") solved. 

‘Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage.’ --Lao Tzu
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2 years ago  ::  May 05, 2012 - 9:39AM #337
Iwantamotto
Posts: 8,299

Ed.W:  Those who were wise and prudent were prideful and worldly, respectively.



I get that, but of course when people who pride themselves on ignorance are real smug about how right they are with Jayzus, it's totally not the same thing, is it?

Knock and the door shall open.  It's not my fault if you don't like the decor.
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2 years ago  ::  May 05, 2012 - 10:38AM #338
Ed.W
Posts: 9,442

May 5, 2012 -- 9:39AM, Iwantamotto wrote:


Ed.W:  Those who were wise and prudent were prideful and worldly, respectively.



I get that, but of course when people who pride themselves on ignorance are real smug about how right they are with Jayzus, it's totally not the same thing, is it?




I'm not smug; I don't feel like I'm Jesus reincarnated.  I just try to observe and listen (in RL).  Here we post.


‘Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage.’ --Lao Tzu
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2 years ago  ::  May 06, 2012 - 7:00PM #339
Paladinsf
Posts: 3,660

All that huffing and puffing and self righteous indignation has not answered the point. And you continue to pretend you don't see it.


Yet ANOTHER reson to have to do these mythologies. They TEACH intellectual Dishonesty.Tongue Out


The World is divided into armed camps ready to commit genocide just because we can't agree on whose fairy tales to believe.
The belief in supernatural religion will kill us all if we don't outgrow it.

When I first read "End of Faith" I thought Sam went too far. The more I read and listen to these "believers" the more I wonder if maybe he wasn't right after all.
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2 years ago  ::  May 07, 2012 - 12:35AM #340
Ed.W
Posts: 9,442

May 6, 2012 -- 7:00PM, Paladinsf wrote:


All that huffing and puffing and self righteous indignation has not answered the point. And you continue to pretend you don't see it.


Yet ANOTHER reson to have to do these mythologies. They TEACH intellectual Dishonesty.




I'm not sure to whom you are addressing your post, and less certain what you are talking about.  I think whoever bought you a computer one Christmas should be tarred and feathered though.

‘Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage.’ --Lao Tzu
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