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Switch to Forum Live View Ex-Jew shares my sentiments.
2 years ago  ::  Apr 16, 2012 - 6:19PM #1
TheFogHorn
Posts: 120

As I was just accused of being a Muslim on here, I thought I'd post my reasons for being on here arguing against the greatness and validity of Judaism....in someone else's words.....

From article below.....It is not enough to inveigh against one set of dogmas; rather, we must assert to the world our belief that no intelligent, self-respecting man should put his faith in that which is invisible, unmeasurable, and undetectable. Under any name, no matter how old and entrenched, superstition remains superstition.


It is surely true that the need and desire to believe precede belief. That may be due to a personality failing about which we can do nothing. We can, however, make our case plain enough so that the hard-headed, clear-eyed position begins to seem a virtue in itself.


We atheists must adopt a non-apologetic approach. We must shed the self-effacement which has too often characterized us. We must assert the moral and ethical superiority of our position. Indeed, we must be as ready to do so as the religious are with regard to their position. We must tell the world of the robustness and joyfulness of the intellectual, moral, and emotional freedom which atheism represents.

www.dvorkin.com/essays/yinotjew.htm

As an athiest, I am against all belief systems based on superstition that result in seperation, alienation and victimisation and I believe the world needs to become atheist if it is to have a peaceful future.

You'd need to read my entire blog to fully understand why I believe the ancient Hebrews worshipped volcanic activity.

http://ohmyvolcano.blogspot.com
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 16, 2012 - 7:41PM #2
nieciedo
Posts: 5,617
So, good for you for finding a belief system that works for you?

If your goal is proselytism, you need to show why atheism is attractive and beneficial enough for a person to make the cost benefit analysis to decide to convert. If a person is happy with their religious belief, what does non-belief offer to make the switch worthwhile?

If your goal is to force and bully people into agreeing with you, then you've got a problem in terms of hypocrisy.

I disagree with your premise because I believe that the religious impulse is an integral part of human culture and religion offers many positive goods to both individuals and communities. The problem is fundamentalism, the arrogant belief that one's own opinions alone are correct and that everyone who disagrees is wrong and stupid and bad. THAT is what imperils the human future.

I'm quite happy as a progressive Anglican and have no intention of adopting atheism.
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 16, 2012 - 7:55PM #3
mainecaptain
Posts: 21,660

fog you appear to not like Jews. Yes you have been on the CD board and the Atheist board, but here is where you seem to like to say unpleasant things to those who are Jewish. So it is more then, just being theists.


You are an atheist, great, you are happy being an atheist great. Why are you proselyting that?


Why are you obsessed with Judaism?


Why not everyone live and let live. Judaism is not trying to take over the world, or forcing itself into government or threatening people for not converting. Again why the obsession? Christianity and Islam has a much worse track record for abuses. Particularly in the modern world.


A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. Aristotle
Never discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Plato..
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives" Jackie Robinson
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 16, 2012 - 8:06PM #4
ffb
Posts: 2,068

I read the page presented. It was not especially interesting and was mired in error and anger. I read of your approach and goal and neither is particularly persuasive. If you belief in convincing others that your position vis-a-vis religion and atheism is sound and morally right then you have a long way to go until you reach that point. All you have done is make me feel even more comfortable in my beliefs. So, thanks for that.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 16, 2012 - 8:29PM #5
TheFogHorn
Posts: 120

Oh I am so sorry. Forgive me for being presumptuous but I was sure you would all be aware that right now religion is causing a whole lot of trouble in the world and may well be the cause of yet another war.....Israel and Iran....two horribly opposing nations/religions that have actually got a lot in common, but that is often the way isn't it? Same fake god, same use of uniforms, similar beliefs, different sides of the fence, different label.


I am not focusing on Judaism. I have spent a lot of time on Islam and on Christianity and even the New Age.....all religions that produce people who believe they are superior and that encourage seperatism and disregard and disdain of 'the others'.


Religion is a comforter and Judaism is the ultimate comforter as it presents itself as a family. One big family all conforting each other. However, that desire to huddle amongst yourselves and see everyone else as defective/inferior 'computer game players and party people' (quoting from one Jew on here) has done you no good long term.


Religion is a mental prison for the various herd mentalities initiated by primitive people who lived in scary times surrounded by natural phenomena they didn't understand and under constant threat of attack from neighbouring people of different paranoid dillusions.


What's changed? Not a lot, apart from the fact each person in the world now has the opportunity to learn about their religion and to comprehend the problems religion has caused the world.


What's more important to you? Comfort or world peace, because this world will not survive if all the people with the comfort blanket refuse to be flexible and meet 'the others' halfway....i.e. blend in.


 


 


 

You'd need to read my entire blog to fully understand why I believe the ancient Hebrews worshipped volcanic activity.

http://ohmyvolcano.blogspot.com
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 16, 2012 - 8:43PM #6
nieciedo
Posts: 5,617
The brewing conflict between Israel and Iran is based on geopolitical concerns and imperial ambitions, not religion. Iran possibly wants nuclear capability to extend its national interests in the region and defend itself against Western imperial aggression; Israel is contemplating per-emptively attacking Iran because it believes that it will be the first target of Iran's imperial aggression.

While the current government of Iran is theocratic, Israel is not formally a theocratic state.

If you really believe that removing religion will bring universal peace, then you are as ignorant of history and human nature as you are of Biblical criticism.

The REAL cause of human misery and the REAL threat to our future is the material inequality and exploitation that is inherent to the capitalist mode of production.

You bourgeois atheists are all alike: you would strip people of the opiate that gives them some comfort and escape from the material horrors of the modern age but do NOTHING to solve the real material suffering that makes the illusion of religion so comforting.
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 16, 2012 - 9:15PM #7
nieciedo
Posts: 5,617
Marx aptly described atheists like you as like "children who tell anyone who is willing to listen to them that they are not afraid of the bogeyman."
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 16, 2012 - 9:16PM #8
TheFogHorn
Posts: 120

Apr 16, 2012 -- 8:43PM, nieciedo wrote:

The brewing conflict between Israel and Iran is based on geopolitical concerns and imperial ambitions, not religion. Iran possibly wants nuclear capability to extend its national interests in the region and defend itself against Western imperial aggression; Israel is contemplating per-emptively attacking Iran because it believes that it will be the first target of Iran's imperial aggression. While the current government of Iran is theocratic, Israel is not formally a theocratic state. If you really believe that removing religion will bring universal peace, then you are as ignorant of history and human nature as you are of Biblical criticism. The REAL cause of human misery and the REAL threat to our future is the material inequality and exploitation that is inherent to the capitalist mode of production. You bourgeois atheists are all alike: you would strip people of the opiate that gives them some comfort and escape from the material horrors of the modern age but do NOTHING to solve the real material suffering that makes the illusion of religion so comforting.



That is anti-goyism and I am offended by that.


So you assume I am a materialist. What makes you think that? In fact you could not be further from the truth and my work is very much focused on persuading people to be more thoughtful of the cost of materialism. What is your job?


Are you saying all the Jews who were executed in the holocaust did not suffer REAL human misery? Is materialism more REAL a human misery than being executed? How about the millions of people killed by Muslims during their Bible based conquests over the centuries? Not REALy miserable deaths? How about the indigenous people slaughtered by Christians during Colonialism? Not REALy that miserable? Not a patch of the human cost of materialism?


Ok, so materialism is misery making and that is why I am passionate about my (normal) work. But have you ever investigated the cause of the hideous rise in materialism? Why are people in the West so addicted to buying cheap crap from China and then throw it all away after a week? Why do they spend so much money on plastic junk when they have kids with rickets due to poor diets? China is a Communist country and it became Communist under the persuasion of Jews.


Before the flood of cheap imports from China, Europeans mostly produced their own goods and valued them more highly....i.e. were less materialistic.


So, yes, I am with you on the materialism thing and am very annoyed that Communist China is destroying European manufacturing and destroying the youth with plastic junk and over sexualised children's clothing and toys, but it's is not the REAL misery maker.


 




 

Moderated by Bunsinspace on Apr 16, 2012 - 10:57PM
You'd need to read my entire blog to fully understand why I believe the ancient Hebrews worshipped volcanic activity.

http://ohmyvolcano.blogspot.com
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 16, 2012 - 9:24PM #9
LeahOne
Posts: 15,727

So, Foggy - if your 'belief system' is so fulfilling and satisfying to you, why are you continually coming back here?


If you'd learned only ONE actual fact about Jews, it's that we despise proselytizing and those who proselytize - of whatever faith to whatever faith, it's the whole concept that repels so many of us.


If any of us desired to no longer be a Jew, we'd be doing something about it.  It's not as though anyone here needs your help, LOL!


 

Moderated by Merope on Apr 17, 2012 - 08:58AM
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 16, 2012 - 10:13PM #10
nieciedo
Posts: 5,617

@FogHorn



???


WTF?


Im pretty sure that "anti-goyism" isn't a word, and I have no clue where you find that in my post. If you would be so kind as to point that out to me, I'd appreciate it.


I apologize for assuming you were a materialist just because you are an atheist who denies and rejects all spiritual beliefs that cannot be proven by science as comforting but dangerous illusions. I don't know how I could have leapt to that conclusion. 


As far material suffering, all I know is that millions if not billions are starving, have no access to clean water or health care, and are forced to slave their lives away for pennies in soul-crushing misery. Even in the Core, where the wealth extracted from the laboring poor and subject nations flows, there is poverty and alienation as everyone must compete to satisfy the whim of the Invisible Hand. What will atheism do to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, set captives free? How will your atheism pull down the mighty from their thrones and lift up the lowly? How will it bring justice to an unjust world where 5% of the world population controls over 1/3 of its wealth?


Because if your atheism doesn't address these issues, not only is it no better than the religions you condemn but italso even worse as it offers not even an illusion of hope. 


The exportation of industrial production to the Third World is the product of the free market and the inevitable logic of capitalismI one invests capital where it can make the most profit, and you maximize profit by exploiting labor. 


China hasn't been "Communist" since Deng Xiaoping took over. I also didn't know that Mao was a Jew. 

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