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Switch to Forum Live View The problem with charity
3 years ago  ::  Apr 16, 2012 - 9:04AM #1
Kwinters
Posts: 22,153

“Charity degrades those who receive it and hardens those who dispense it.”






PS Snarky reactions will be ignored.  Thoughful ones will get a reply.

Jesus had two dads, and he turned out alright.~ Andy Gussert

“Feminism has fought no wars. It has killed no opponents. It has set up no concentration camps, starved no enemies, practiced no cruelties. Its battles have been for education, for the vote, for better working conditions…for safety on the streets…for child care, for social welfare…for rape crisis centers, women’s refuges, reforms in the law.

If someone says, “Oh, I’m not a feminist,” I ask, “Why, what’s your problem?”

Dale Spender
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 16, 2012 - 9:31AM #2
JimRigas
Posts: 2,950

Please justify the second half of your postulate,

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 16, 2012 - 9:48AM #3
tfvespasianus
Posts: 2,087
Putting aside that this is not the Discuss George Sand board, it does bring up something somewhat vaguely related to a strain of contemporary christianity. That is, the tendency among some to conflate Randian thought with the gospel. The irony is that Rand herself was (among other things) a strident atheist. One justification of the vociferous anti-communism of, say, the Eisenhower era was that this ideology was considered 'god-less'. However, the 'godlessness' of the Randian ideology is mostly deemphasized among its latter day adherents.
Ubi solitudinem faciunt pacem appellant - Tacitus
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 16, 2012 - 10:16AM #4
Eliascomes
Posts: 994

 Everyone has their hands in everyones pockets.


Matthew 6:2
“So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full.

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 16, 2012 - 10:22AM #5
Kwinters
Posts: 22,153

Apr 16, 2012 -- 9:31AM, JimRigas wrote:


Please justify the second half of your postulate,




It's not mine, as noted it is from George Sand.

Jesus had two dads, and he turned out alright.~ Andy Gussert

“Feminism has fought no wars. It has killed no opponents. It has set up no concentration camps, starved no enemies, practiced no cruelties. Its battles have been for education, for the vote, for better working conditions…for safety on the streets…for child care, for social welfare…for rape crisis centers, women’s refuges, reforms in the law.

If someone says, “Oh, I’m not a feminist,” I ask, “Why, what’s your problem?”

Dale Spender
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 16, 2012 - 11:22AM #6
Miguel_de_servet
Posts: 17,092

... it sounds like a lazy way to wiggle one's way out of any responsibility whatsoever to your fellow man.

Revelation is above, not against Reason

“The everlasting God is a refuge, and underneath you are his eternal arms ...” (Deut 33:27)
“Do you have an arm like God, and can you thunder with a voice like his?” (Job 40:9)
“By the Lord’s word [dabar] the heavens were made; and by the breath [ruwach] of his mouth all their host.” (Psalm 33:6)
“Who would have believed what we just heard? When was the arm of the Lord revealed through him?” (Isaiah 53:1)
“Lord, who has believed our message, and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?” (John 12:38)
“For not the hearers of the law are righteous before God, but the doers of the law will be declared righteous.” (Romans 2:13)

“Owe no one anything, except to love one another, for the one who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.”(Romans 13:8)
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 16, 2012 - 12:06PM #7
Blü
Posts: 25,073

We know that self-denial as a basis for feeling good about yourself / worthy / virtuous is found in all cultures ie is genetic.


Giving money or appropriate goods to charity can have this effect.  (I distinguish giving money and goods from being actually hands on delivering charity, though I know the latter people, who include many heroes, can burn out too.)


So first, we have altruism within us, and second, we can be pushed too far and be exhausted by demands on it.


That leaves the question of whether charity makes the receiver cynical.  Yes, it dang sure can have that effect, as every professional beggar knows.  No, even if we leave the whole of that aside (which involves wondering what some beggars have if begging brings nothing) there are lots of uncynical, sincerely grateful. recipients of caritas.


Conclusion: the proposition is sometimes correct as to both its propositions, sometimes correct as to one of them, and sometimes outright wrong.


Which doesn't make it very helpful - a statement true of many broad generalizations.


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3 years ago  ::  Apr 16, 2012 - 12:20PM #8
SecondSonOfDavid
Posts: 3,344

Apr 16, 2012 -- 10:22AM, Kwinters wrote:


Apr 16, 2012 -- 9:31AM, JimRigas wrote:


Please justify the second half of your postulate,




It's not mine, as noted it is from George Sand.




You posted it, Ms. Winters.  Surely you have an opinion regarding its' contentions?

That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier.
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 16, 2012 - 12:25PM #9
SecondSonOfDavid
Posts: 3,344

To the OP, I think it is true in some cases, but not all.  I have some friends who work in law enforcement, for example.  They try to work hard for the protection and service of all good people.  Granted, at times they can become cynical, as many times they encounter people at something less than their best condition.  However, they get recharged when they get a "big win", whether individually or as a group.  They tell me firemen and doctors act the same way.  The win, in this case, is not about personal benefit but an assurance that what they do makes a difference.  It would be true to say the job is hard at times, but it would be false to say they stop caring or become callous to people.  


The OP is the kind of claim made by someone who is unwilling to commit to charity in the long term, and who seeks to excuse himself by a false claim taht sounds good to his own ears. 

That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier.
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 16, 2012 - 1:01PM #10
Adelphe
Posts: 28,736

Apr 16, 2012 -- 9:04AM, Kwinters wrote:


“Charity degrades those who receive it and hardens those who dispense it.”









I fail to see any justification for either idea.

Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason, my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and I will not retract anything, for to go against conscience would be neither right nor safe.  Here I stand.  I can do no other.  God help me.  Amen.
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