Apr 16, 2012 -- 6:46AM, davelaw40 wrote:

Its Yes and No

Every human has made the wrong choice and chosen to miss the mark; but its not in our DNA

I didn't ask about our genetic structure.

I asked about the human condition.

Is sin a fundamental (belonging to one's innate or ingrained characteristics) of the human condition*?

And if yes, how could a man be called human if he never experienced the causes, the dilemmas or outcomes of sin?

*(wiki) the unique and believed to be inescapable features of being human in a social, cultural, and personal context. It can be described as the irreducible part of humanity that is inherent and not connected to factors such as gender, race or class. It includes concerns such as a search for purpose, search for gratification, sense of curiosity, the inevitability of isolation, or the fear of death.

sin is not inevitable-its just the most likely outcome

temptation is inevitable

Apr 16, 2012 -- 5:01AM, Adelphe wrote:

Apr 16, 2012 -- 4:34AM, Kwinters wrote:

Which moves you more?

The story of a god who pretends at being mortal for a bit, pretends to die while wearing a man suit but doesn't and then performs a miracle he had done multiple times before.

Straw man.

In Christianity, God Himself condescends to enter fully into human suffering (both in solidarity and in order to redeem it and them) and pours Himself out (sacrifices Himself) so that they can be ontologically changed into living again.

Or

The story of a fallible mortal human who emotionally commits himself to a divine belief that it transforms his life and the life of those around him, who then goes and makes the ultimate sacrifice for his beliefs.  And his god, so touched, raises him from the dead and is so moved decides to never again ask people to sacrifice to him, just believe and live based on the model of this one human.
...

Sappy, b-grade, superhero comic book.

So that last comment summarizes your view of all the people (including Christians) who have suffered for heartfelt beliefs?

Apr 16, 2012 -- 6:25AM, davelaw40 wrote:

if Jesus had sinned once; the Universe would have ceased to exist

there was the real possibility when Jesus died that the Universe would cease

Could you expand on this?I've never heard of this idea that sin by Jesus would have ended the universe.

Apr 16, 2012 -- 6:58AM, davelaw40 wrote:

which doctrines offended the common  laity and were deemed heresies

What is this "common laity" to which you refer? As Church history demonstrates, Arianism, Montanism, gnostic forms of Christianity, and Manichaeanism all seem to have been rather popular in the Late Antique period and were considered serious threats to the so-called orthodox. In fact, some of the important theologians of the Late Antique Church -- Origen, Tertullian, and Evagrius of Pontus -- ended up being deemed guilty of heresy. Even the writings of Clement of Alexandria are considered to contain heretical and gnostic ideas. And as the Nag Hammadi Codices demonstrate, some of the gnostics considered other gnostics to be heretical!

And as far as heresies are concerned, please remember that according to the Catholicism that I was raised on, any form of Christianity besides the Holy Roman Catholic Church -- including Lutheranism, Methodism, Presbyterianism, Baptism, and Pentecostalism -- are all heresies. So you can throw around this heresy concept if you like, but just remember that from the perspective of the clergy who instructed me, whatever form of non-Catholic Christianity you follow is also heresy. So I really don't know what you expect to gain by talking about heresy with an ex-Catholic who was raised to view all forms of Christianity that arose either during or after the Protestant Reformation to be heretical.