Yes, it is good to find something in common with Sir 57. How beautiful it will be when death is no more, and mourning and outcry and pain have been removed from this earth where they have existed so long.
The problem is, there is too much that is uncommon. You take away from what Jesus Christ has done and in pride suggest you have a part in your salvation through works that qualify you...
The bible says God DRAGS you to Jesus. It's not you. God pulls the saved (elect) from the pit of hell as one drags a net full of fish onto a boat.
You act as if you have a part. God has mercy and grace..you have no part. if you had a part there is no mercy and grace. It then becomes mercy, grace and you...trying to qualify.
Your Gospel is empty.
Jesus the God/man did the work for you.
God is merciful and gracious, and draws us to him. I agree. But the scriptures do outline 'our part.'
I will go with the answer you gave, as you did not amend it.
Can one be a friend of Christ, and not obey his commandments?---my question
We are his friends IF we DO what he commands, do the will of God. You do have a part, to do what Christ commands. Doing what he commands, is what results in us being his friend.
Christ will save his friends, those who do the will of God. There are conditions, there are requirements.
MrJordan, I'll share with you an illustration I use in the ministry, to explain the difference between 'earning' and 'qualifying.'
If I have a litter of puppies, and I want to give them away, and place a 'Free Puppies' sign on my lawn, then there is no price on my puppies, and you cannot buy them, you cannot 'earn' one. If you come to me, to my door, you can have a puppy, my gift.
However, if you show up at my door, and you are a ringer for Michael Vick, you will not qualify for my puppies, no way will you get a puppy.
My puppies, my rules.
It is the same with God. He offers us the free gift, but there are conditions we must meet first. In the case of God, it is to obey Jesus commands, exercise faith, do the will of God.
Maybe that little illustration will be useful to you at some point.
“People are not disturbed by things, but by the views they take of them.” ― Epictetus
Life is like photography, you need a clear lens, and the picture you get depends on what you focus on.
Anger stems from irrational beliefs about others, anxiety stems from irrational beliefs about yourself.---Spencer Lord, The Brain Mechanic
Yes, it is good to find something in common with Sir 57. How beautiful it will be when death is no more, and mourning and outcry and pain have been removed from this earth where they have existed so long.
To me there's a real paradox here, because in reality I actually thrive on difficulty and adversity, and when life doesn't hand me enough of it, I go looking for it and create my own challenges in hobbies, games. etc. I won't even try to touch the various conventional theological notions of the redemptive value of suffering here, but stick to some easy-to-grasp truisms about human nature.
I really have to question the validity of the very popular supposition that most of us buy into most of the time, namely we'd be better off if we could all avoid the things that cause us pain and difficulty. In my craziest moments I would never have aspired to be a low-bottom alcoholic, have congestive heart failure and internal bleeding caused by various birth defects, to have watched my sobriety dream house burn to the ground, nor to have the love of my life suffer from cancer and my kid brother die of it, nor to be a geezer as I am now, making end-of-life decisions. And anyone who might wish such things upon me would be off my Christmas card list in a trice!
But the fact remains that is has been by slogging through these things that my life has acquired meaning, like the loose threads on the back of a tapestry that seem to go nowhere until you turn it over and see the picture they make on the other side. And that's how it is in reality with human nature. Let's say Moe and Joe are neighbors, and on the same day that Moe wins 17 million in the lottery, Joe is in a terrible accident that requires months of physical rehab and devastates him financially. So a year later, who's really happier, Moe the guy with the dough or Joe the guy with the crutches and the mountain of medical bills?
Some real-life studies of thousands of parallel cases confirmed what way deep down we've always suspected, that in reality the guy who got the so-called raw deal is happier-- not always, but in a much higher percentage of cases than anyone had previously assumed. And perhaps strangest of all, the findings did not confirm that such happiness correlates with belief in a theological concept system that emphasizes redemptive suffering or personifies God as a fellow whose mercy is more readily available to those who face their problems within that frame of reference. As often as not, such people only wind up angry at God-- adding "Why me, Lord?" and a sense of betrayal about that-- to the load they're already carrying.
Carl Jung called this human need the adversity gradient, and proposed that it's universal in human nature. The simple fact is that despite our objections to the contrary, we thrive on difficulty and none of us would ever be truly happy with a permanent residence on Easy Street. And Jung added somewhere else that neurosis is always a substitute for legitimate suffering.
Yet even though we may occasionally pause and acknowledge the truth of all this, the tacit assumption that we'd all be happier and better off if unpleasant things never happened underlies our thoughts and conversations all the time. But the relief we may get from such utopian daydreaming is just as temporary as what we get from a shot of whiskey, and each delivers its own sort of hangover in due time.
Have you not heard of the fall of man?
I'm sorry for the targic events in your life..but this is a fallen world we live in. Has that escaped you?
The devil is real. Whiskey is real. People die. Fortunatly for you, you can find true peace in Jesus. Or, you can write him off find a corner and curl up in the fetal position.
Yes, it is good to find something in common with Sir 57. How beautiful it will be when death is no more, and mourning and outcry and pain have been removed from this earth where they have existed so long.
The problem is, there is too much that is uncommon. You take away from what Jesus Christ has done and in pride suggest you have a part in your salvation through works that qualify you...
The bible says God DRAGS you to Jesus. It's not you. God pulls the saved (elect) from the pit of hell as one drags a net full of fish onto a boat.
You act as if you have a part. God has mercy and grace..you have no part. if you had a part there is no mercy and grace. It then becomes mercy, grace and you...trying to qualify.
Your Gospel is empty.
Jesus the God/man did the work for you.
I will ask this question a 3rd time, since I know this thread is moving so fast.
How will your sin be removed? Will it be "zapped" out of you? How will God remove for example, lying?
I thought the answer was obvious. ALL of my sins, past, present and future have been imputed to the God/man Jesus christ.
Will I ever not tell a lie again? I doubt it. But, after I am fully sanctified I will not iie. In heaven we will be like Jesus.
So why doesn't he just sanctify everyone and no one has to die? Take and "zap" the sin right out of us so we don't even think about sinning ever again. (of course you realize that this takes away free will if Jehovah can just alter our brains to where we will not sin.)
So, for example, a baby murderer repents. Jesus saves. All is forgiven? Am I the only one that finds that... repulsive?
So, you sin. Jesus saves you...and you don't find that repulsive?
I find repulsive that one can use "Jesus saves" as an excuse for such attrocious acts.
How about advocating personal responsibility as opposed to having someone pay your debts for you? If you get into debt because of your own stupid decisions, why would you expect anyone to save you? The world needs responsible people, not lazy people that defer doing what is right, because Jesus "saves".
Yes, it is good to find something in common with Sir 57. How beautiful it will be when death is no more, and mourning and outcry and pain have been removed from this earth where they have existed so long.
The problem is, there is too much that is uncommon. You take away from what Jesus Christ has done and in pride suggest you have a part in your salvation through works that qualify you...
The bible says God DRAGS you to Jesus. It's not you. God pulls the saved (elect) from the pit of hell as one drags a net full of fish onto a boat.
You act as if you have a part. God has mercy and grace..you have no part. if you had a part there is no mercy and grace. It then becomes mercy, grace and you...trying to qualify.
Your Gospel is empty.
Jesus the God/man did the work for you.
God is merciful and gracious, and draws us to him. I agree. But the scriptures do outline 'our part.'
I will go with the answer you gave, as you did not amend it.
Can one be a friend of Christ, and not obey his commandments?---my question
We are his friends IF we DO what he commands, do the will of God. You do have a part, to do what Christ commands. Doing what he commands, is what results in us being his friend.
Christ will save his friends, those who do the will of God. There are conditions, there are requirements.
MrJordan, I'll share with you an illustration I use in the ministry, to explain the difference between 'earning' and 'qualifying.'
If I have a litter of puppies, and I want to give them away, and place a 'Free Puppies' sign on my lawn, then there is no price on my puppies, and you cannot buy them, you cannot 'earn' one. If you come to me, to my door, you can have a puppy, my gift.
However, if you show up at my door, and you are a ringer for Michael Vick, you will not qualify for my puppies, no way will you get a puppy.
My puppies, my rules.
It is the same with God. He offers us the free gift, but there are conditions we must meet first. In the case of God, it is to obey Jesus commands, exercise faith, do the will of God.
Maybe that little illustration will be useful to you at some point.
LOVE the illustration! It is also an illustration of how we are made in the image of Jehovah and Jesus when it comes to justice. If WE can think of these terms of justice then our creator thinks in the same terms. The difference between us and Jehovah is that He can look into a man's heart to know the truth.
I'm sorry for the targic events in your life..but this is a fallen world we live in. Has that escaped you?
The devil is real. Whiskey is real. People die. Fortunatly for you, you can find true peace in Jesus. Or, you can write him off find a corner and curl up in the fetal position.
Yeah, but I've been sober, happy and serenely feisty without Jesus for more than 23 years. So if he ever wants a piece of the action, I'll be only too glad to tell him how I did it.
Yes, it is good to find something in common with Sir 57. How beautiful it will be when death is no more, and mourning and outcry and pain have been removed from this earth where they have existed so long.
The problem is, there is too much that is uncommon. You take away from what Jesus Christ has done and in pride suggest you have a part in your salvation through works that qualify you...
The bible says God DRAGS you to Jesus. It's not you. God pulls the saved (elect) from the pit of hell as one drags a net full of fish onto a boat.
You act as if you have a part. God has mercy and grace..you have no part. if you had a part there is no mercy and grace. It then becomes mercy, grace and you...trying to qualify.
Your Gospel is empty.
Jesus the God/man did the work for you.
God is merciful and gracious, and draws us to him. I agree. But the scriptures do outline 'our part.'
I will go with the answer you gave, as you did not amend it.
You said absolutely not, we don't need to obey Jesus commands to be his friend.
Stop right there...Have you done everything that Jesus has commanded you to do?
if you haven't stop your lecture.
there is an 'if.'
We are his friends IF we DO what he commands, do the will of God. You do have a part, to do what Christ commands. Doing what he commands, is what results in us being his friend.
Once again, have you done what Jesus commands you to do? Can you honestly say you have? If not, go preach some where else.
Christ will save his friends, those who do the will of God. There are conditions, there are requirements.
Have you really done the will of God? I say you havent. So please drop your pius attitude.
MrJordan, I'll share with you an illustration I use in the ministry, to explain the difference between 'earning' and 'qualifying.'
If I have a litter of puppies, and I want to give them away, and place a 'Free Puppies' sign on my lawn, then there is no price on my puppies, and you cannot buy them, you cannot 'earn' one. If you come to me, to my door, you can have a puppy, my gift.
However, if you show up at my door, and you are a ringer for Michael Vick, you will not qualify for my puppies, no way will you get a puppy.
My puppies, my rules.
Then how did Paul qualify? He was hunting down and killing christians?
It is the same with God. He offers us the free gift, but there are conditions we must meet first. In the case of God, it is to obey Jesus commands, exercise faith, do the will of God.
As said, you have not done the will of God. You have convicted yourself to eternity in hell. What a poor example to tell a person. God knows we fail. I don't know about your god..but when I fail my God picks me up.
Maybe that little illustration will be useful to you at some point.
I can guarantee you that you don't obey Jesus commands, exercise faith, do the will of God. You may in a prideful manner think you do...but you like all humans fail.
you steal the glory from the Devine Savior Jesus Christ and attribute it to yourself...then present a little winking smiley face.
Cherubino, I think humans are 'hardwired' to find meaning. We find meaning in adversity now, and like you, I am now grateful for the things I suffered in years past, as they have taught me a great deal, and I would even be the 'me' that I am without them.
But we find meaning in adversity now, because adversity is what we have. When we have different sorts of challenges, we will find meaning in those challenges. I expect you've read Csikszentmihalyi, in his book "Flow," personally I can imagine many sorts of 'flow experiences' that can be created in a paradise, experiences where our skills come near to and are expanded by the challenges, that provide satisfactory feedback, and become optimal experiences, without the need for painful experiences.
“People are not disturbed by things, but by the views they take of them.” ― Epictetus
Life is like photography, you need a clear lens, and the picture you get depends on what you focus on.
Anger stems from irrational beliefs about others, anxiety stems from irrational beliefs about yourself.---Spencer Lord, The Brain Mechanic
I'm sorry for the targic events in your life..but this is a fallen world we live in. Has that escaped you?
The devil is real. Whiskey is real. People die. Fortunatly for you, you can find true peace in Jesus. Or, you can write him off find a corner and curl up in the fetal position.
Yeah, but I've been sober, happy and serenely feisty without Jesus for more than 23 years. So if he ever wants a piece of the action, I'll be only too glad to tell him how I did it.
What about your other sins? Did you forget about them?
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