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Switch to Forum Live View How do you obtain Eternal Life..the JW way?
2 years ago  ::  Apr 15, 2012 - 7:47PM #81
Goodtobehomestill
Posts: 6,583

Apr 15, 2012 -- 7:46PM, 57 wrote:


Apr 15, 2012 -- 7:38PM, Goodtobehomestill wrote:


Okay, let's try this one more time for clarity.  I didn't say 'perfectly.'  But I am presently obeying Christ's commandments. 



Can one be a friend of Christ, and not obey his commandments?



Absolutly.  Do you consider yourself to be a friend? Do you obey EVERY commandment?---57




If I take your answer at face value, you answered that you can 'absolutely' be a friend of Christ and not obey his commandments.   Before I respond to that answer, I want to be entirely sure you understand the question, and your answer, and that there is no misunderstanding.




Jesus Christ is my Lord, God and Savior.  That being said, I still disobey and sin.  I wish I didn't...but I still sin. 




Okay, I understand that, we all sin and fall short.  However, I still need this answer, is it required to obey Jesus commandments in order to be his friend.


Do you need to obey Jesus commandments first, in order to be counted his friend.

“People are not disturbed by things, but by the views they take of them.”
― Epictetus

Life is like photography, you need a clear lens, and the picture you get depends on what you focus on.


Anger stems from irrational beliefs about others, anxiety stems from irrational beliefs about yourself.---Spencer Lord, The Brain Mechanic
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 15, 2012 - 7:48PM #82
mrjordan
Posts: 2,145

Apr 15, 2012 -- 7:46PM, 57 wrote:


Apr 15, 2012 -- 7:38PM, Goodtobehomestill wrote:


Okay, let's try this one more time for clarity.  I didn't say 'perfectly.'  But I am presently obeying Christ's commandments. 



Can one be a friend of Christ, and not obey his commandments?



Absolutly.  Do you consider yourself to be a friend? Do you obey EVERY commandment?---57




If I take your answer at face value, you answered that you can 'absolutely' be a friend of Christ and not obey his commandments.   Before I respond to that answer, I want to be entirely sure you understand the question, and your answer, and that there is no misunderstanding.




Jesus Christ is my Lord, God and Savior.  That being said, I still disobey and sin.  I wish I didn't...but I still sin. 




So how does Jesus remove the sin of a liar? Does he just "zap"  the sin away? Will that person still be allowed to lie in heaven?

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 15, 2012 - 7:48PM #83
57
Posts: 22,970

Apr 15, 2012 -- 7:39PM, mrjordan wrote:


Apr 15, 2012 -- 7:22PM, Oeste wrote:



There is a presumption that had  they not sinned they would have been allowed to eat of the tree of life, and therefore not die:


"And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever." Gen 3:22


If the presumption is correct, they would have lived forever.





When did Jehovah's purpose for man change from living on earth forever to living in heaven?


Scriptures would be nice.




You do know there will be a new heaven and a new earth where man will live?  Eternity is more than living in heaven.   Read about the New Jerusalem in Rev 21

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 15, 2012 - 7:52PM #84
mrjordan
Posts: 2,145

Apr 15, 2012 -- 7:48PM, 57 wrote:


Apr 15, 2012 -- 7:39PM, mrjordan wrote:


Apr 15, 2012 -- 7:22PM, Oeste wrote:



There is a presumption that had  they not sinned they would have been allowed to eat of the tree of life, and therefore not die:


"And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever." Gen 3:22


If the presumption is correct, they would have lived forever.





When did Jehovah's purpose for man change from living on earth forever to living in heaven?


Scriptures would be nice.




You do know there will be a new heaven and a new earth where man will live?  Eternity is more than living in heaven.   Read about the New Jerusalem in Rev 21




Yes. I do know there will be people living on earth forever. It's a primary JW belief. Smile Glad we agree here.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 15, 2012 - 7:54PM #85
Goodtobehomestill
Posts: 6,583

Yes, it is good to find something in common with Sir 57.  How beautiful it will be when death is no more, and mourning and outcry and pain have been removed from this earth where they have existed so long.


“People are not disturbed by things, but by the views they take of them.”
― Epictetus

Life is like photography, you need a clear lens, and the picture you get depends on what you focus on.


Anger stems from irrational beliefs about others, anxiety stems from irrational beliefs about yourself.---Spencer Lord, The Brain Mechanic
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 15, 2012 - 8:07PM #86
57
Posts: 22,970

Apr 15, 2012 -- 7:54PM, Goodtobehomestill wrote:


Yes, it is good to find something in common with Sir 57.  How beautiful it will be when death is no more, and mourning and outcry and pain have been removed from this earth where they have existed so long.





The problem is, there is too much that is uncommon.  You take away from what Jesus Christ has done and in pride suggest you have a part in your salvation through works that qualify you...



The bible says God DRAGS you to Jesus.  It's not you.  God pulls the saved (elect) from the pit of hell as one drags a net full of fish onto a boat. 


You act as if you have a part.  God has mercy and grace..you have no part.  if you had a part there is no mercy and grace.  It then becomes mercy, grace and you...trying to qualify. 


Your Gospel is empty. 


Jesus the God/man did the work for you. 

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 15, 2012 - 8:12PM #87
mrjordan
Posts: 2,145

Apr 15, 2012 -- 8:07PM, 57 wrote:


Apr 15, 2012 -- 7:54PM, Goodtobehomestill wrote:


Yes, it is good to find something in common with Sir 57.  How beautiful it will be when death is no more, and mourning and outcry and pain have been removed from this earth where they have existed so long.





The problem is, there is too much that is uncommon.  You take away from what Jesus Christ has done and in pride suggest you have a part in your salvation through works that qualify you...



The bible says God DRAGS you to Jesus.  It's not you.  God pulls the saved (elect) from the pit of hell as one drags a net full of fish onto a boat. 


You act as if you have a part.  God has mercy and grace..you have no part.  if you had a part there is no mercy and grace.  It then becomes mercy, grace and you...trying to qualify. 


Your Gospel is empty. 


Jesus the God/man did the work for you. 




I will ask this question a 3rd time, since I know this thread is moving so fast.


How will your sin be removed? Will it be "zapped" out of you? How will God remove for example, lying?

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 15, 2012 - 8:16PM #88
Knowsnothing
Posts: 1,150

So, for example, a baby murderer repents.  Jesus saves.  All is forgiven?  Am I the only one that finds that... repulsive?

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 15, 2012 - 8:26PM #89
cherubino
Posts: 7,277

Apr 15, 2012 -- 7:54PM, Goodtobehomestill wrote:


Yes, it is good to find something in common with Sir 57.  How beautiful it will be when death is no more, and mourning and outcry and pain have been removed from this earth where they have existed so long.




To me there's a real paradox here, because in reality I actually thrive on difficulty and adversity, and when life doesn't hand me enough of it, I go looking for it and create my own challenges in hobbies, games. etc. I won't even try to touch the various conventional theological notions of the redemptive value of suffering here, but stick to some easy-to-grasp truisms about human nature.


I really have to question the validity of the very popular supposition that most of us buy into most of the time, namely we'd be better off if we could all avoid the things that cause us pain and difficulty. In my craziest moments I would never have aspired to be a low-bottom alcoholic, have congestive heart failure and internal bleeding caused by various birth defects, to have watched my sobriety dream house burn to the ground, nor to have the love of my life suffer from cancer and my kid brother die of it, nor to be a geezer as I am now, making end-of-life decisions. And anyone who might wish such things upon me would be off my Christmas card list in a trice!

But the fact remains that is has been by slogging through these things that my life has acquired meaning, like the loose threads on the back of a tapestry that seem to go nowhere until you turn it over and see the picture they make on the other side. And that's how it is in reality with human nature. Let's say Moe and Joe are neighbors, and on the same day that Moe wins 17 million in the lottery, Joe is in a terrible accident that requires months of physical rehab and devastates him financially. So a year later, who's really happier, Moe the guy with the dough or Joe the guy with the crutches and the mountain of medical bills?

Some real-life studies of thousands of parallel cases confirmed what way deep down we've always suspected, that in reality the guy who got the so-called raw deal is happier-- not always, but in a much higher percentage of cases than anyone had previously assumed. And perhaps strangest of all, the findings did not confirm that such happiness correlates with belief in a theological concept system that emphasizes redemptive suffering or personifies God as a fellow whose mercy is more readily available to those who face their problems within that frame of reference. As often as not, such people only wind up angry at God-- adding "Why me, Lord?" and a sense of betrayal about that-- to the load they're already carrying.
 
Carl Jung called this human need the adversity gradient, and proposed that it's universal in human nature. The simple fact is that despite our objections to the contrary, we thrive on difficulty and none of us would ever be truly happy with a permanent residence on Easy Street. And Jung added somewhere else that neurosis is always a substitute for legitimate suffering.

Yet even though we may occasionally pause and acknowledge the truth of all this, the tacit assumption that we'd all be happier and better off if unpleasant things never happened underlies our thoughts and conversations all the time. But the relief we may get from such utopian daydreaming is just as temporary as what we get from a shot of whiskey, and each delivers its own sort of hangover in due time.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 15, 2012 - 8:29PM #90
57
Posts: 22,970

Apr 15, 2012 -- 8:12PM, mrjordan wrote:


Apr 15, 2012 -- 8:07PM, 57 wrote:


Apr 15, 2012 -- 7:54PM, Goodtobehomestill wrote:


Yes, it is good to find something in common with Sir 57.  How beautiful it will be when death is no more, and mourning and outcry and pain have been removed from this earth where they have existed so long.





The problem is, there is too much that is uncommon.  You take away from what Jesus Christ has done and in pride suggest you have a part in your salvation through works that qualify you...



The bible says God DRAGS you to Jesus.  It's not you.  God pulls the saved (elect) from the pit of hell as one drags a net full of fish onto a boat. 


You act as if you have a part.  God has mercy and grace..you have no part.  if you had a part there is no mercy and grace.  It then becomes mercy, grace and you...trying to qualify. 


Your Gospel is empty. 


Jesus the God/man did the work for you. 




I will ask this question a 3rd time, since I know this thread is moving so fast.


How will your sin be removed? Will it be "zapped" out of you? How will God remove for example, lying?




I thought the answer was obvious. ALL of my sins, past, present and future have been imputed to the God/man Jesus christ. 


Will I ever not tell a lie again?  I doubt it.  But, after I am fully sanctified I will not iie.  In heaven we will be like Jesus. 

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