And, of course, John 3:16 has already been posted!
You notice John 3:16 doesn't mention...works? yes?
Ah but is not the whole chapter showing John's works as a faithful teacher who's loyalty is to Jesus and Jehovah? If the writers of the bible did not do their work, we would not have a bible at all. Even Nicodemus realizes John as a teacher in John 3:2.
"He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.”
The problem is mjordan...you are not as loyal as you think. You have just lost any chance of salvation.
Do you not see it? Salvation is free. Only those who are saved again can do Gods works...and we still fail. But God is full of grace and mercy.
As I have asked numerous times....how do you know if you, a JW is saved?
Wow...can't help myself here. God is full of mercy, and accords us the mercy we accord others.
Regarding whether we know if we are saved, Paul, who was converted directly by Jesus, and if anyone had a right to feel he was 'once saved, always saved,' didn't teach any such doctrine.
Paul taught there was 'promise' of the life to come, and that we must 'labor and strive' to lay hold on it.
Free gift, still requires some effort to take hold of it. I am always happy to take my example from Paul, who evidently had the humble attitude that he was still doing what he was told to do, and in expectation of his reward, not that he had 'laid hold of it already.' He knew even he didn't do the 'complete will of God' (Romans 7:21-24) but that he would need to keep at it, he likened it to a marathon race. And he knew he could become disapproved, so that it was necessary to keep striving.
(1 Corinthians 9:24-27) 24 Do YOU not know that the runners in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that YOU may attain it. 25 Moreover, every man taking part in a contest exercises self-control in all things. Now they, of course, do it that they may get a corruptible crown, but we an incorruptible one. 26 Therefore, the way I am running is not uncertainly; the way I am directing my blows is so as not to be striking the air; 27 but I pummel my body and lead it as a slave, that, after I have preached to others, I myself should not become disapproved somehow.
And I don't believe Paul ever expressed a sentiment like 'I'm saved and you've just lost all chance you ever had.' That would seem downright arrogant and prideful.
Regarding pride, adultery is wrong, sex is not wrong, used properly and in the right context. It works the same with pride.
Even wikipedia helps us see there is the pride that is a 'vice' and a pride that is a 'virtue.'
Pride that is a 'becoming (befitting) or dignified sense' that results in 'self-respect and 'self-esteem, is not a 'vice.'
If the angel who became Satan had 'gloried' in his opportunity to be the 'covering cherub' and enjoyed his 'befitting self-respect' in that position, instead of allowing that 'virtue' to become twisted into a 'vice,' he would still be a wonderfully happy angel overseeing mankind's affairs.
We should daily, frequently acknowledge that we could do nothing if God had not make it possible. 'By him we have life, and move, and exist.' However, we can take some credit for what we do well, what we do that is correct and right, and that is no sin. God takes all credit that we can do what is right, we can take some credit when we do do what is right.
“People are not disturbed by things, but by the views they take of them.” ― Epictetus
Life is like photography, you need a clear lens, and the picture you get depends on what you focus on.
Anger stems from irrational beliefs about others, anxiety stems from irrational beliefs about yourself.---Spencer Lord, The Brain Mechanic
And, of course, John 3:16 has already been posted!
You notice John 3:16 doesn't mention...works? yes?
In my opinion, yes, it does. It says that one must believe in him if they do not want to perish. One of the works that is necessary in this believing is explained by Jesus when he was praying to his Father at John 17:3,that is that we know or understand who is the true God and the reason that he sent his son to the earth. We are not born with this knowledge, so God provided the scriptures to teach us the truth about these things. Mankind has devised much false hood regarding both these truths and it is only by a study of the scriptures that we can come to really KNOW the truth. It takes work to read and study, yes, it can be pleasurable or difficult, but either way it takes work. If you are a person that thinks you know the true God and the one he sent forth, just because of your emotions, then I would tell you that you do not. If you do not read and study the scriptures for yourself but just believe whatever you are told, you likely cannot really KNOW these two truths.
If you are a thinking person when you read John 3:16, some questions that you might ask are:
1.Why is Jesus called God's only Son?
2. what does perish mean as far as the bible is concerned?
3. What should I do to gain this eternal life promised in this verse?
Even further reading the next 6 verses
(a work) will help you in answering these questions.
And, of course, John 3:16 has already been posted!
You notice John 3:16 doesn't mention...works? yes?
Ah but is not the whole chapter showing John's works as a faithful teacher who's loyalty is to Jesus and Jehovah? If the writers of the bible did not do their work, we would not have a bible at all. Even Nicodemus realizes John as a teacher in John 3:2.
"He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.”
The problem is mjordan...you are not as loyal as you think. You have just lost any chance of salvation.
Do you not see it? Salvation is free. Only those who are saved again can do Gods works...and we still fail. But God is full of grace and mercy.
As I have asked numerous times....how do you know if you, a JW is saved?
1. The good news is that I do not have to answer to any man about my loyalty to Jehovah.
I never said you did.
2. Where salvation is free, I know that I must WORK forward through the teachings of the bible to take it.
If you must work...it is not free.
3. My failures will be judged by Jesus who has tasted death and knows what I am facing in this world that is ruled by Satan that wants to take my gift away from me.
Satan can't take the gift of salvation away from you.
4. I will not know if I am saved until that day comes.
How sad. TODAY I know that I am saved.
I will show Jesus my faith AND my works and let him decide. I prey that he sees me worthy as a loyal servant to Jehovah.
No man is worthy. Romans 3:10 "As it is written "There is no one righteous, not even one.
My friend, I feel I must warn you that the starting line and finish line are NOT next to each other.
Many of your Bible questions are answered there - of course, please look up the Scriptures cited in your own copy of the Bible.
And I also should repeat the warning about 'worship of angels '- I am not sure you understand this Scriptural warning:
(Colossians 2:18) . . . Let no man deprive YOU of the prize who takes delight in a [mock] humility and a form of worship of the angels, “taking his stand on” the things he has seen. . .
The Bible encourages us to approach the father only through Jesus, not angels - see John 14:6.
Jesus could have called angels to his aid - but he didn't. Why?
(Matthew 26:53) . . .Or do you think that I cannot appeal to my Father to supply me at this moment more than twelve legions of angels?
57 - Yes, I see you do not understand. I might add you have judged Mr. Jordan - and Jesus warns us against judging others in his sermon on the mount!
I.e., we should never tell a person he is or is not saved, since we are not authorized to judge - Jesus had been given this privilege, not us.
Of course, we can teach people to observe all Jesus commanded as per Matthew 28:19,20.
You seem to advocate belief in Jesus is all that is necessary for salvation. Remember, James did not simply state that faith without works is dead - he also stated that the demons are believers:
(James 2:18-20) . . .Nevertheless, a certain one will say: “You have faith, and I have works. Show me your faith apart from the works, and I shall show you my faith by my works.” 19 You believe there is one God, do you? You are doing quite well. And yet the demons believe and shudder. 20 But do you care to know, O empty man, that faith apart from works is inactive?
Now, quite the opposite of the false doctrine 'once saved always saved' - the Bible states that those 'saved' who fall away cannot be revived to repentance - in effect, only those 'saved' are at risk of committing the unforgiveable sin and thus becoming, like Judas Isacariot, beyond repentance. Were you aware of the following Scriptural accounts?
(Hebrews 6:4-6) . . . For it is impossibleas regards those who have once for all been enlightened, and who have tasted the heavenly free gift, and who have become partakers of holy spirit, 5 and who have tasted the fine word of God and powers of the coming system of things, 6 but who have fallen away, to revive them again to repentance, because they impale the Son of God afresh for themselves and expose him to public shame.
Cp.:
(Hebrews 10:26-29) . . . For if we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left, 27 but [there is] a certain fearful expectation of judgment and [there is] a fiery jealousy that is going to consume those in opposition. 28 Any man that has disregarded the law of Moses dies without compassion, upon the testimony of two or three. 29 Of how much more severe a punishment, do YOU think, will the man be counted worthy who has trampled upon the Son of God and who has esteemed as of ordinary value the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and who has outraged the spirit of undeserved kindness with contempt?
And, of course, John 3:16 has already been posted!
You notice John 3:16 doesn't mention...works? yes?
Ah but is not the whole chapter showing John's works as a faithful teacher who's loyalty is to Jesus and Jehovah? If the writers of the bible did not do their work, we would not have a bible at all. Even Nicodemus realizes John as a teacher in John 3:2.
"He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.”
The problem is mjordan...you are not as loyal as you think. You have just lost any chance of salvation.
Do you not see it? Salvation is free. Only those who are saved again can do Gods works...and we still fail. But God is full of grace and mercy.
As I have asked numerous times....how do you know if you, a JW is saved?
Wow...can't help myself here. God is full of mercy, and accords us the mercy we accord others.
Jesus said no man is good. Mark 10:18.
Regarding whether we know if we are saved, Paul, who was converted directly by Jesus, and if anyone had a right to feel he was 'once saved, always saved,' didn't teach any such doctrine.
That's pretty much a false statement.
For example...who so ever believes in Him will have EVERLASTING life...everlasting as if you can't lose it because it is everlasting.
Also....and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand....John 10:28
Paul taught there was 'promise' of the life to come, and that we must 'labor and strive' to lay hold on it.
No it doesn't. The verse talks about godlness being profitable for this present life and the one to come. It mentions nothing of salvation.
Free gift, still requires some effort to take hold of it. I am always happy to take my example from Paul, who evidently had the humble attitude that he was still doing what he was told to do, and in expectation of his reward, not that he had 'laid hold of it already.' He knew even he didn't do the 'complete will of God' (Romans 7:21-24) but that he would need to keep at it, he likened it to a marathon race. And he knew he could become disapproved, so that it was necessary to keep striving.
The effort is in realizing you are a sinner, what Jesus did to remove your sins ...and accepting it. No "works" required. Notice as you said, it is a free gift.
(1 Corinthians 9:24-27) 24 Do YOU not know that the runners in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that YOU may attain it. 25 Moreover, every man taking part in a contest exercises self-control in all things. Now they, of course, do it that they may get a corruptible crown, but we an incorruptible one. 26 Therefore, the way I am running is not uncertainly; the way I am directing my blows is so as not to be striking the air; 27 but I pummel my body and lead it as a slave, that, after I have preached to others, I myself should not become disapproved somehow.
You do know there is two judgements? The White Throne...and the Bema Seat? Your rewards may be lost at the Bema Seat. That verse is not about salvation.
And I don't believe Paul ever expressed a sentiment like 'I'm saved and you've just lost all chance you ever had.' That would seem downright arrogant and prideful.
?????? I don't understand your point.
Regarding pride, adultery is wrong, sex is not wrong, used properly and in the right context. It works the same with pride.
Even wikipedia helps us see there is the pride that is a 'vice' and a pride that is a 'virtue.'
Pride that is a 'becoming (befitting) or dignified sense' that results in 'self-respect and 'self-esteem, is not a 'vice.'
If the angel who became Satan had 'gloried' in his opportunity to be the 'covering cherub' and enjoyed his 'befitting self-respect' in that position, instead of allowing that 'virtue' to become twisted into a 'vice,' he would still be a wonderfully happy angel overseeing mankind's affairs.
We should daily, frequently acknowledge that we could do nothing if God had not make it possible. 'By him we have life, and move, and exist.' However, we can take some credit for what we do well, what we do that is correct and right, and that is no sin. God takes all credit that we can do what is right, we can take some credit when we do do what is right.
Where does the bible say we can take some credit...as if the work of Jesus Christ on the cross wasn't enough.
Following are several verses that acknowledge works will not gain you salvation. You need to address them if you want to contine with your "works required" Gospel.
Galations 2:16
nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justifie
That's 1.
Here's another...
Titus 3:5
He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,
...and yet another,
2nd Timoth 1:9
who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity,
How many versus do you need? Here's another:
Eph 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
Do you need another? OK, here's another;
From Romans...
What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “ ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.” 4 Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. 5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness, 6 just as David also speaks of the blessing on the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:
And yet another for Phil 3:9
and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith,
How many versus do you need to see that works don't grant you salvation?
For My Mother: In Praise of a Life Lived
Chasing an Elusive God
Why Christianity Is Dying But Spirituality Is Thriving?
On the Frontlines An interview with Yael Eckstein, Senior Vice President of the ...
Ray Liotta, Seth Green Join an All-Star Cast in Indie Film ‘The Identical’ “We want to bring films with a redeeming value to the world. One of ...
A Life of Hope The fact that you’re standing here today with breath in your lungs ...
Habits for a Heart Healthy Lifestyle Heart disease is a top killer worldwide -- but our lifestyle choices ...
Emotional Equations Using brilliantly simple math that illuminates universal emotional ...
Are You a Compulsive or Binge Eater? Do you struggle with your weight? Find out more about compulsive and ...
Faith, Freedom and Rocker John Schlitt “We are making choices on greed and stupidity. The truth is that our ...
Robert Griffin III: Not the Average Rookie Washington Redskins quarterback Robert Griffin III continues to wow ...
Green Powders to Add to Your Diet Now Green powders are a great way to boost your health, keep your energy ...
Natural Deodorants That Actually Work What's that smell? Not us! We’ve been on a mission to find the best ...
Birth of a Habit How long does it take to form a new habit? How long should it take ...
Madly In Love With ME “I will never settle for less than my heart and soul desire.”
Is It Love If You're All Cranky When You Give It? Love is the answer to everything in life.
Living A Meaningful Life You are what you love and you love whatever you give your attention ...
"The Bible" a Labor of Love for Famed Producer, Wife The five-week, 10-hour TV special was nurtured by "Touched by an ...
Who Should Be Allowed to Pray for President Obama? It seems preposterous, but there’s a major debate over who is worthy ...
