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Switch to Forum Live View Abraham,Isaac and God
2 years ago  ::  Apr 13, 2012 - 12:28PM #1
koolpoi
Posts: 6,282
After God stops Abraham from killing Isaac,no further conversations between the father and son or between Abraham and God are recorded.Why do you think this was?Could it be that the incident which almost resulted in Isaac's death at the hands of his father left some deep emotional scars?Could it be that Abraham saw God differently afterwards?
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 13, 2012 - 12:41PM #2
Eliascomes
Posts: 861

Apr 13, 2012 -- 12:28PM, koolpoi wrote:

After God stops Abraham from killing Isaac,no further conversations between the father and son or between Abraham and God are recorded.Why do you think this was?Could it be that the incident which almost resulted in Isaac's death at the hands of his father left some deep emotional scars?Could it be that Abraham saw God differently afterwards?



 I guess Abraham was too much overwhelm that he appreciated what he had.


1 Kings 3


 24 Then the king said, “Bring me a sword.” So they brought a sword for the king. 25 He then gave an order: “Cut the living child in two and give half to one and half to the other.”

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 13, 2012 - 2:02PM #3
visio
Posts: 3,229

Apr 13, 2012 -- 12:28PM, koolpoi wrote:

After God stops Abraham from killing Isaac,no further conversations between the father and son or between Abraham and God are recorded.Why do you think this was?Could it be that the incident which almost resulted in Isaac's death at the hands of his father left some deep emotional scars?Could it be that Abraham saw God differently afterwards?




He woke up from his dream  I don't think he saw God anyway differently than before it but, rather, he interprets ancient practice of human and animal sacrifices differently.   More specifically, in term of purification of a realised past sin of an inherited sin - either that of his or his son.   

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 13, 2012 - 2:57PM #4
lope
Posts: 10,652

Apr 13, 2012 -- 12:28PM, koolpoi wrote:

After God stops Abraham from killing Isaac,no further conversations between the father and son or between Abraham and God are recorded.Why do you think this was?Could it be that the incident which almost resulted in Isaac's death at the hands of his father left some deep emotional scars?Could it be that Abraham saw God differently afterwards?




I was raised in a fundamental concervative Christian church, but my father was not religious.  When I was a teenager, the story of Abraham and Isaac came up; and my father stated that did not make sense.  He said he would never kill his son on orders from anyone, even God.  Through the years I thought about that, and as I got older I decided my father had the correct take on this story.  God would never tell anyone to kill their son.  God did not need to know what Abraham would do. He already knew. I believe that the correct response from Abraham would have been the response of my father.  He should have said something to the effect, no I will not kill my son.  If you want him killed you will have to do it, and if I had the power I would prevent your doing it. This is simply one of the stories in the bible I do not believe is from God.  I think God is good all the time and this is not an example of God being good.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 13, 2012 - 3:46PM #5
Seefan
Posts: 3,875

Apr 13, 2012 -- 2:57PM, lope wrote:


I was raised in a fundamental concervative Christian church, but my father was not religious.  When I was a teenager, the story of Abraham and Isaac came up; and my father stated that did not make sense.  He said he would never kill his son on orders from anyone, even God.  Through the years I thought about that, and as I got older I decided my father had the correct take on this story.  God would never tell anyone to kill their son.  God did not need to know what Abraham would do. He already knew. 



While it maybe true that God already knows, I don't think the story has anything to with what God knows or wants but how strong is one's faith in that God is either everything or He is nothing.  But it seems more along the lines of visio's understanding that Abraham awoke from his dream, or trance, realizing that if God wanted him to go as far as killing his son, in his obedence to the Will of God, would he?  He realized that he would but it was not required ...


 

Today the one overriding need is unity and harmony among the beloved of the Lord, for they should have among them but one heart and soul and should, so far as in them lieth, unitedly withstand the hostility of all the peoples of the world ... (Baha'i Writings)
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 13, 2012 - 4:28PM #6
lope
Posts: 10,652

Apr 13, 2012 -- 3:46PM, Seefan wrote:


Apr 13, 2012 -- 2:57PM, lope wrote:


I was raised in a fundamental concervative Christian church, but my father was not religious.  When I was a teenager, the story of Abraham and Isaac came up; and my father stated that did not make sense.  He said he would never kill his son on orders from anyone, even God.  Through the years I thought about that, and as I got older I decided my father had the correct take on this story.  God would never tell anyone to kill their son.  God did not need to know what Abraham would do. He already knew. 



While it maybe true that God already knows, I don't think the story has anything to with what God knows or wants but how strong is one's faith in that God is either everything or He is nothing.  But it seems more along the lines of visio's understanding that Abraham awoke from his dream, or trance, realizing that if God wanted him to go as far as killing his son, in his obedence to the Will of God, would he?  He realized that he would but it was not required ...


 





I am not convinced.  In the story God says at one point Now I know thus and so.  I think the story is not only bogus but teaches the wrong thing.  We should do what God has written on our hearts what is right and nobody should be obeyed telling us to do different than that.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 13, 2012 - 4:38PM #7
57
Posts: 21,991

Apr 13, 2012 -- 12:28PM, koolpoi wrote:

After God stops Abraham from killing Isaac,no further conversations between the father and son or between Abraham and God are recorded.Why do you think this was?Could it be that the incident which almost resulted in Isaac's death at the hands of his father left some deep emotional scars?Could it be that Abraham saw God differently afterwards?



You have to look at the whole story.  This you failed to do. 


After Abraham was told to stop...he was told "Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son."


In verse 13 a ram is provided.  You need to work that into story. 


Hebrews 11 tells us:


17 By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had embraced the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only son, 18 even though God had said to him, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.”  19 Abraham reasoned that God could even raise the dead, and so in a manner of speaking he did receive Isaac back from death.


Perhaps the whole story can answer your questions. 

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 13, 2012 - 4:48PM #8
Adelphe
Posts: 28,705

Apr 13, 2012 -- 12:28PM, koolpoi wrote:

After God stops Abraham from killing Isaac,no further conversations between the father and son or between Abraham and God are recorded.Why do you think this was?Could it be that the incident which almost resulted in Isaac's death at the hands of his father left some deep emotional scars?Could it be that Abraham saw God differently afterwards?



Abraham and God continued their relationship.  Of course!  As 57 points out Abraham is hailed as the hero of faith not to mention he is the only one in the OT to be called a friend of God.  In Genesis 24 (2 "chapters" post-Isaac/Mt. Moriah) we read:


"The Lord, the God of heaven, who took me from my father's house and from the land of my kindred, and who spoke to me and swore to me, ‘To your offspring I will give this land,’ he will send his angel before you, and you shall take a wife for my son from there."


Which is exactly what happened.

Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason, my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and I will not retract anything, for to go against conscience would be neither right nor safe.  Here I stand.  I can do no other.  God help me.  Amen.
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 13, 2012 - 10:04PM #9
jlb32168
Posts: 13,127

Apr 13, 2012 -- 12:28PM, koolpoi wrote:

After God stops Abraham from killing Isaac,no further conversations between the father and son or between Abraham and God are recorded.Why do you think this was?Could it be that the incident which almost resulted in Isaac's death at the hands of his father left some deep emotional scars?Could it be that Abraham saw God differently afterwards?


Those are possible reasons.  Other possible reasons are that there were other conversations.  They simply aren’t recorded.

Victim of this, victim of that, your mama’s too thin and your daddy’s too fat, get over it! - the Eagles
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 13, 2012 - 10:32PM #10
JimRigas
Posts: 2,950

But the most probable situation was that there were NO conversations between God and Abraham, and the whole thing originated in the imagination of the writer.

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