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Switch to Forum Live View Unambiguous assertions of Jesus's divinity
2 years ago  ::  Apr 15, 2012 - 10:08PM #91
Paladinsf
Posts: 3,660

Apr 15, 2012 -- 8:52PM, jlb32168 wrote:


Apr 15, 2012 -- 7:19PM, Paladinsf wrote:

No, no change at all. Same question. She is allowing the Dave one.  Are there others? If so, please cite.


I think that many of the so-called ambiguous passages are only rendered ambiguous through the most tendentious, partisan interpretations that skeptics can produce, Paladin.  Suffice it to say that I will always repair to the GoJ’s Prologue as the most definitive example of NT Scripture’s intention to assert Christ’s divinity.  Only through the cleverest of semantic acrobatics can its clarion interpretation be spun to suggest something else.


Thus far, the only argument against it on this thread isn’t a question of its ambiguity, but the argument that it should be removed from consideration.  When the burden of proof is met, the next move by skeptics  is to move the goalposts.  Say, “Oh yeah, well prove your stupid deity exists”.  That trumps everything, but it’s not like the kid who runs his mouth on the basketball court, saying he can kick everyone else’s rump, and then when he starts getting his kicked, takes his ball home in mid game and says that nobody beat him.




So we can say you have no other cite to offer.


Anybody else?


And BTW, what about this is "moving the goalposts?"


Davelaw has produced an unambiguous divine(like) Christ circa 90-100 CE. My own is later.

The World is divided into armed camps ready to commit genocide just because we can't agree on whose fairy tales to believe.
The belief in supernatural religion will kill us all if we don't outgrow it.

When I first read "End of Faith" I thought Sam went too far. The more I read and listen to these "believers" the more I wonder if maybe he wasn't right after all.
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 15, 2012 - 10:15PM #92
jlb32168
Posts: 13,129

Apr 15, 2012 -- 10:08PM, Paladinsf wrote:

So we can say you have no other cite to offer.  Anybody else?


Dave is doing quite well on his own.  Me doing the same would only be superfluous.  I've little doubt you're already busy preparing your tendentious, partisan interpretations that all skeptics on this board produce in efforts to make red really blue.

Victim of this, victim of that, your mama’s too thin and your daddy’s too fat, get over it! - the Eagles
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 15, 2012 - 10:25PM #93
Ed.W
Posts: 9,423

John 4:26



Jesus said to her, "I am, 11 the one who is speaking with you."






Oh, verse 26 Jesus Identified himself as God.  No two ways about it.  Cry






Keep in mind, Jesus will either call himself Yhwh or I AM; he will not call himself "theos".  Don't click footnote 11, it won't save you.  It will just confirm what I just told you.






Want another?



Mark 6:50



But when they saw him walking upon the sea, they supposed it had been a spirit, and cried out:  For they all saw him, and were troubled. And immediately he talked with them, and saith unto them, Be of good cheer: it is I am [egō eimi]; be not afraid.



Unambiguous, in scripture, out of Jesus mouth, twice.....ouch!





Discuss or flee like rats... which will it be??  LOL Cleared the whole forum let alone the thread.... Laughing

Have you got anything I can sink my teeth into?
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 15, 2012 - 10:49PM #94
Paladinsf
Posts: 3,660

Apr 15, 2012 -- 10:15PM, jlb32168 wrote:


Apr 15, 2012 -- 10:08PM, Paladinsf wrote:

So we can say you have no other cite to offer.  Anybody else?


Dave is doing quite well on his own.  Me doing the same would only be superfluous.  I've little doubt you're already busy preparing your tendentious, partisan interpretations that all skeptics on this board produce in efforts to make red really blue.




We prefer to refer to it as "critical analysis based on close reasoning." And I, at least, make NO apology for that. None.


But your version works also.Wink 


Of course, if it really WAS unambiguous this thread would be 2 posts long. But as you see . . . 

The World is divided into armed camps ready to commit genocide just because we can't agree on whose fairy tales to believe.
The belief in supernatural religion will kill us all if we don't outgrow it.

When I first read "End of Faith" I thought Sam went too far. The more I read and listen to these "believers" the more I wonder if maybe he wasn't right after all.
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 15, 2012 - 11:00PM #95
Ed.W
Posts: 9,423

C'mon Paladin... don't keep us waiting!  We need our fix of  critical analysis based on close reasoning we're all jonesin here, dude


And it's been 33 41 60 deafening minutes 


Apr 15, 2012 -- 10:49PM, Paladinsf wrote:


Of course, if it really WAS unambiguous this thread would be 2 posts long. But as you see . . . 




it's awful quiet now....this is how you know you've slam dunked it.  


Shutting the board down for an hour is amazing.

Have you got anything I can sink my teeth into?
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 15, 2012 - 11:32PM #96
Paladinsf
Posts: 3,660

Apr 15, 2012 -- 11:00PM, Ed.W wrote:

C'mon Paladin... don't keep us waiting!  We need our fix of  critical analysis based on close reasoning we're all jonesin here, dude


And it's been 33 41 60 deafening minutes 


Apr 15, 2012 -- 10:49PM, Paladinsf wrote:


Of course, if it really WAS unambiguous this thread would be 2 posts long. But as you see . . . 




it's awful quiet now....this is how you know you've slam dunked it.  


Shutting the board down for an hour is amazing.


I have neither the desire nor the stones to overide KW. She has something in mind and whatever it is (and I think I know) but WHATEVER - its her thesis not mine.


For me, the WHOLE tale from "In the beginning . . " to "Amen" is bogus. Discussions like this are EXACTLY like arguing over whether Zeus REALLY wanted the Greeks to win or sided with them only because the Fates said to.  You can make a case either way because the authors wanted it that way. Just like with this myth ambiguity encourages study if the subject is interesting enough.


But that has NOTHING to do with actual FACT.

The World is divided into armed camps ready to commit genocide just because we can't agree on whose fairy tales to believe.
The belief in supernatural religion will kill us all if we don't outgrow it.

When I first read "End of Faith" I thought Sam went too far. The more I read and listen to these "believers" the more I wonder if maybe he wasn't right after all.
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 15, 2012 - 11:35PM #97
Paladinsf
Posts: 3,660

"Shutting the board down for an hour is amazing."


Hardly.Tongue Out




Happens most every day. Just about this time. Something to with the diurnal cycle, I think.


Speaking of which . . .

The World is divided into armed camps ready to commit genocide just because we can't agree on whose fairy tales to believe.
The belief in supernatural religion will kill us all if we don't outgrow it.

When I first read "End of Faith" I thought Sam went too far. The more I read and listen to these "believers" the more I wonder if maybe he wasn't right after all.
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 15, 2012 - 11:57PM #98
Ed.W
Posts: 9,423

>>>Paladinsf: For me, the WHOLE tale from "In the beginning . . " to "Amen" is bogus.



That's what I know. 


I don't understand myself why folks who don't believe in the validity of the Bible at all are demanding to have unambiguous scriptures cited to them.  Undecided



I'm placing bets on who will spin post #93 the best. 


There's plenty of "orthodox Christians" here who are just as uncomfortable with Jesus undeniably identifying himself as God as my friend Kristi would be... if not more so.  It may well be a "Christian" that blows it out of the water the best.


In fact there is nothing really to discuss, I mean it's right there on the pages of the Bible.  What would be interesting is why the cover up by the translators. 



Fact is many Christians are comfortable thinking they believe something that is probably not true.  If it is really true there are some very unsettling ramifications.  That's why it was hidden.  It's disturbing.  Only the true believers are among the elect, and they don't need a Bible except to confirm what they already know, and they can read through the camouflage.



Have you got anything I can sink my teeth into?
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 16, 2012 - 4:26AM #99
Adelphe
Posts: 28,705

Apr 15, 2012 -- 4:52PM, Kwinters wrote:


To recap:


Davelaw has produced an unambiguous divine(like) Christ circa 90-100 CE. My own is later.


Another other clear statements of Jesus as a divine being in the Christian scriptures and /or later writings?




Titus 2:13


11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people, 12 training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age, 13  waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ


ca. 63 AD

Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason, my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and I will not retract anything, for to go against conscience would be neither right nor safe.  Here I stand.  I can do no other.  God help me.  Amen.
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 16, 2012 - 4:35AM #100
Adelphe
Posts: 28,705

Apr 15, 2012 -- 11:00PM, Ed.W wrote:


C'mon Paladin... don't keep us waiting!  We need our fix of  critical analysis based on close reasoning we're all jonesin here, dude



LOL

Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason, my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and I will not retract anything, for to go against conscience would be neither right nor safe.  Here I stand.  I can do no other.  God help me.  Amen.
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