Post Reply
Page 8 of 18  •  Prev 1 ... 6 7 8 9 10 ... 18 Next
Switch to Forum Live View Unambiguous assertions of Jesus's divinity
3 years ago  ::  Apr 15, 2012 - 6:40AM #71
Ed.W
Posts: 9,442

Apr 15, 2012 -- 4:42AM, Kwinters wrote:




Quoted from The Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures




FAIL


‘Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage.’ --Lao Tzu
Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  Apr 15, 2012 - 7:10AM #72
davelaw40
Posts: 19,669

Apr 15, 2012 -- 6:40AM, Ed.W wrote:


Apr 15, 2012 -- 4:42AM, Kwinters wrote:




Quoted from The Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures




FAIL





Watch Tower Press

Non Quis, Sed Quid
Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  Apr 15, 2012 - 8:26AM #73
Kwinters
Posts: 22,137

Apr 15, 2012 -- 7:10AM, davelaw40 wrote:


Apr 15, 2012 -- 6:40AM, Ed.W wrote:


Apr 15, 2012 -- 4:42AM, Kwinters wrote:




Quoted from The Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures




FAIL





Watch Tower Press





Is a reading that 'can be inferred from the text and isn’t excluded' apologetics rule.

Jesus had two dads, and he turned out alright.~ Andy Gussert

“Feminism has fought no wars. It has killed no opponents. It has set up no concentration camps, starved no enemies, practiced no cruelties. Its battles have been for education, for the vote, for better working conditions…for safety on the streets…for child care, for social welfare…for rape crisis centers, women’s refuges, reforms in the law.

If someone says, “Oh, I’m not a feminist,” I ask, “Why, what’s your problem?”

Dale Spender
Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  Apr 15, 2012 - 8:32AM #74
57
Posts: 23,432

Apr 14, 2012 -- 5:43AM, Kwinters wrote:


Apr 13, 2012 -- 4:44PM, 57 wrote:


Apr 12, 2012 -- 7:02AM, Kwinters wrote:

Just wondering how many instances Christians can provide where Jesus is described unambiguously as divine in their scriptures.

How many times is this connection explicitly made beyond any reasonable dispute of interpretation or translation or redaction, from which books do these passages come, and when were they written?



Perhaps you would like to present a post telling us where Jesus explicitly said He wasn't God. 




I like this one from Acts:


Acts 2:22-24


Ye men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God unto you by mighty works and wonders and signs which God did by him in the midst of you, even as ye yourselves know; him, being delivered up by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye by the hand of lawless men did crucify and slay:whom God raised up, having loosed the pangs of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.



Here are just a few examples from Mark.


As He was setting out on a journey, a man ran up to Him and knelt before Him, and asked Him, ‘Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?’ And Jesus said to him, ‘Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.’" Mark 10:17-18


At that time Jesus came from Nazareth in Galilee and was baptized by John in the Jordan. Just as Jesus was coming up out of the water, he saw heaven being torn open and the Spirit descending on him like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: “You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased.” Mark 1:9-11


"After six days Jesus took Peter, James and John with him and led them up a high mountain, where they were all alone. There he was transfigured before them. His clothes became dazzling white, whiter than anyone in the world could bleach them. And there appeared before them Elijah and Moses, who were talking with Jesus. Peter said to Jesus, ‘Rabbi, it is good for us to be here. Let us put up three shelters - one for you, one for Moses and one for Elijah.’ (He did not know what to say, they were so frightened.) Then a cloud appeared and enveloped them, and a voice came from the cloud: ‘This is my Son, whom I love. Listen to him!’" Mark 9:2-7


Which is easier, to say to the paralytic, "Your sins are forgiven"; or to say, "Arise take up your pallet and walk"? But in order that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins’ - He said to the paralytic - ‘I say to you, rise, take up your pallet and go home.’ And he rose and immediately took up the pallet and went out in the sight of all; so that they were all amazed and were glorifying God, saying, ‘We have never seen anything like this.’" Mark 5-12


'But Jesus remained silent and gave no answer. Again the high priest asked him, “Are you the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One?”  “I am,” said Jesus. “And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.” 


More:


"My Father is greater than I." ‐ (John 14:28)


But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone. (Hebrews 2:9)


''Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”(John 20:17)


The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. (Colossians 1:15)






Where do they say ...Jesus is not God? These versus speak in part of the kenosis of Christ.  They DO NOT...explicitly say He wasn't God. 



Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  Apr 15, 2012 - 9:22AM #75
Miguel_de_servet
Posts: 17,087

Apr 14, 2012 -- 8:58PM, Ed.W wrote:

I see where you err. You present Acts 2:36, and of course you want to bore in on the words "hath made" even thought the verse gives no indication that the making came at any precise time that is so crucial to your theology.


You come up with entirely irrelevant waffle.


The key expression, which is, indeed, a stumbling block for you, is precisely that "hath made", which obviously could never apply to a person who was, by nature and right, a "co-equal, co-eternal member of the tri-personal deity".


[a] Of course if you back up to verse 29 and actually read the scripture in its full context , you will see that this passage is a comparison to David. [b] I can see another stumbling block where it says "received the promise of the Holy Spirit."  That has to do with the spirit being manifested in the believers as Jesus had promised them; NOT Jesus receiving the Spirit himself as he pleased Big Daddy by going all the way to the Cross.


[a] The "comparison to David" is obviously there, BUT how does it help you with the obvious implications of "hath made" (see above)?


[b] What a spectacular ...  ... where did I ever indicate, or simply suggest, that the "received ... promise of the Holy Spirit" means anything different from what it obviously means at Acts 2:33?


Yes Jesus was "made" Messiah on the day of his conception (at the latest).  David was never to be the Messiah.  That's all you've got here: a comparison to David.

Once again, how does the "comparison to David", which is obviously there, help you with the equally obvious implications of "hath made" (see above)?


MdS

Moderated by Adelphe on Apr 16, 2012 - 04:29AM
Revelation is above, not against Reason

“The everlasting God is a refuge, and underneath you are his eternal arms ...” (Deut 33:27)
“Do you have an arm like God, and can you thunder with a voice like his?” (Job 40:9)
“By the Lord’s word [dabar] the heavens were made; and by the breath [ruwach] of his mouth all their host.” (Psalm 33:6)
“Who would have believed what we just heard? When was the arm of the Lord revealed through him?” (Isaiah 53:1)
“Lord, who has believed our message, and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?” (John 12:38)
“For not the hearers of the law are righteous before God, but the doers of the law will be declared righteous.” (Romans 2:13)

“Owe no one anything, except to love one another, for the one who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.”(Romans 13:8)
Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  Apr 15, 2012 - 9:47AM #76
57
Posts: 23,432

Apr 15, 2012 -- 9:22AM, Miguel_de_servet wrote:


Apr 14, 2012 -- 8:58PM, Ed.W wrote:

I see where you err.  You present Acts 2:36, and of course you want to bore in on the words "hath made" even thought the verse gives no indication that the making came at any precise time that is so crucial to your theology.


You come up with entirely irrelevant waffle.


The key expression, which is, indeed, a stumbling block for you, is precisely that "hath made", which obviously could never apply to a person who was, by nature and right, a "co-equal, co-eternal member of the tri-personal deity".



57: I don't see your argument.  For example you have a spirit. Right? You also are physical. Right? Are they both not you?


Can you make something your spirit  can't? I suggest you can and do it all the time. 


[a] Of course if you back up to verse 29 and actually read the scripture in its full context , you will see that this passage is a comparison to David. [b] I can see another stumbling block  where it says "received the promise of the Holy Spirit."  That has to do with the spirit being manifested in the believers as Jesus had promised them; NOT Jesus receiving the Spirit himself as he pleased Big Daddy by going all the way to the Cross.


[a] The "comparison to David" is obviously there, BUT how does it help you with the obvious implications of "hath made" (see above)?


[b] What a spectacular ...  ... where did I ever indicate, or simply suggest, that the "received ... promise of the Holy Spirit" means anything different from what it obviously means at Acts 2:33?


Yes Jesus was "made" Messiah on the day of his conception (at the latest).  David was never to be the Messiah.  That's all you've got here: a comparison to David.

Once again, how does the "comparison to David", which is obviously there, help you with the equally obvious implications of "hath made" (see above)?


MdS





Moderated by Adelphe on Apr 16, 2012 - 04:31AM
Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  Apr 15, 2012 - 9:56AM #77
Ed.W
Posts: 9,442

Mario, it is no less than 2000 year old doctrine that God "made" the Son a sacrifice for the sins of mankind.


So that Peter is stating it in Acts is supposed to be a problem??


"Therefore let all the house of Israel know that God has made the same Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ. [both Lord and Christ:  that is he is Jehovah as well as Messiah]


Embarassed



For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.  (2 Cor 5,21)


(OMG there's another one with the word "made" in it, holy crap.)


"Make" is one of the longer dictionary entries.  "Has made" means something like "established" here.  I.e. "has made Jesus the only path to God."


As in, "the court has made paying the fine the only option."

‘Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage.’ --Lao Tzu
Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  Apr 15, 2012 - 3:04PM #78
Miguel_de_servet
Posts: 17,087

Lobster


Apr 15, 2012 -- 9:47AM, 57 wrote:

Apr 15, 2012 -- 9:22AM, Miguel_de_servet wrote:

The key expression, which is, indeed, a stumbling block for you [Ed.W], is precisely that "hath made" [in Acts 2:36], which obviously could never apply to a person who was, by nature and right, a "co-equal, co-eternal member of the tri-personal deity".


I don't see your argument.  For example you have a spirit. Right? You also are physical. Right? Are they both not you?


Can you make something your spirit  can't? I suggest you can and do it all the time.


Like Ed.W, you also come up with entirely irrelevant waffle, nay senseless gibberish.


MdS

Revelation is above, not against Reason

“The everlasting God is a refuge, and underneath you are his eternal arms ...” (Deut 33:27)
“Do you have an arm like God, and can you thunder with a voice like his?” (Job 40:9)
“By the Lord’s word [dabar] the heavens were made; and by the breath [ruwach] of his mouth all their host.” (Psalm 33:6)
“Who would have believed what we just heard? When was the arm of the Lord revealed through him?” (Isaiah 53:1)
“Lord, who has believed our message, and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?” (John 12:38)
“For not the hearers of the law are righteous before God, but the doers of the law will be declared righteous.” (Romans 2:13)

“Owe no one anything, except to love one another, for the one who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.”(Romans 13:8)
Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  Apr 15, 2012 - 3:17PM #79
Ed.W
Posts: 9,442

Apr 15, 2012 -- 3:04PM, Miguel_de_servet wrote:


Lobster


Apr 15, 2012 -- 9:47AM, 57 wrote:

Apr 15, 2012 -- 9:22AM, Miguel_de_servet wrote:

The key expression, which is, indeed, a stumbling block for you [Ed.W], is precisely that "hath made" [in Acts 2:36], which obviously could never apply to a person who was, by nature and right, a "co-equal, co-eternal member of the tri-personal deity".


I don't see your argument.  For example you have a spirit. Right? You also are physical. Right? Are they both not you?


Can you make something your spirit  can't? I suggest you can and do it all the time.


Like Ed.W, you also come up with entirely irrelevant waffle, nay senseless gibberish.


MdS




don't sweat it, Mario.  The gate and road is narrow.  You're in good company.  Or at least plenty of it.

‘Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage.’ --Lao Tzu
Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  Apr 15, 2012 - 3:25PM #80
57
Posts: 23,432

Apr 15, 2012 -- 3:04PM, Miguel_de_servet wrote:


Lobster


Apr 15, 2012 -- 9:47AM, 57 wrote:

Apr 15, 2012 -- 9:22AM, Miguel_de_servet wrote:

The key expression, which is, indeed, a stumbling block for you [Ed.W], is precisely that "hath made" [in Acts 2:36], which obviously could never apply to a person who was, by nature and right, a "co-equal, co-eternal member of the tri-personal deity".


I don't see your argument.  For example you have a spirit. Right? You also are physical. Right? Are they both not you?


Can you make something your spirit  can't? I suggest you can and do it all the time.


Like Ed.W, you also come up with entirely irrelevant waffle, nay senseless gibberish.


MdS




MdS is dancing around the issue.  


just answer the question.

Quick Reply
Cancel
Page 8 of 18  •  Prev 1 ... 6 7 8 9 10 ... 18 Next
 
    Viewing this thread :: 0 registered and 1 guest
    No registered users viewing
    Advertisement

    Beliefnet On Facebook