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Switch to Forum Live View What exactly is Armageddon?
2 years ago  ::  Apr 07, 2012 - 4:20PM #1
Ed2
Posts: 3,322

When I first started studying with JWs during the 1974-1975 school year(during my freshman year in college), I recall that on the Monday or Tuesday night book study, they were studying out of this little green book, which was based on the book of Ezekiel, called: "The Nations Shall Know That I am Jehovah." And in that book, they studied the details of the prphecies in Ezekiel...along with the similar or corresponding propehcies in Revelation.


But getting back to the question of my thread theme, I remember them studying in detail what exactly "Armageddon' was itself. And from what I can recall...and with the use of JWs' NWT version of the Bible...I will try to reiterate what I can remember about "The Nation" book's explanation of what Armageddon was.


But I'll start off by quoting Revelation 16:13-16... 


13 And I saw three unclean inspired expressions [that looked] like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the wild beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 They are, in fact, expressions inspired by demons and perform signs, and they go forth to the kings of the entire inhabited earth, to gather them together to the war of the great day of God the Almighty.


15 “Look! I am coming as a thief. Happy is the one that stays awake and keeps his outer garments, that he may not walk naked and people look upon his shamefulness.”


16 And they gathered them together to the place that is called in Hebrew Har–Ma·ged´on.




Okay, now I'm sure that "The Nations" book included these scriptures, but I quoted them to first establish that Armageddon involved the gathering together of the kings of the entire inhabited earth, to gather them together to the war of the great day of God the Almighty...also know as Armageddon(and in Hebrew, Har–Ma·ged´on).

Now the second thing that I wanted to mention is the destruction of the great harlot, Babylon the Great(which is integeral to the events leading up to Armageddon), which is described in:

Revelation 17:16


16 And the ten horns that you saw, and the wild beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her devastated and naked, and will eat up her fleshy parts and will completely burn her with fire.



Revelation 18:1-2


1 After these things I saw another angel descending from heaven, with great authority; and the earth was lighted up from his glory. 2 And he cried out with a strong voice, saying: “She has fallen! Babylon the Great has fallen, and she has become a dwelling place of demons and a lurking place of every unclean exhalation and a lurking place of every unclean and hated bird!




and Revelation 18:8-23


8 That is why in one day her plagues will come, death and mourning and famine, and she will be completely burned with fire, because Jehovah God, who judged her, is strong.


9 “And the kings of the earth who committed fornication with her and lived in shameless luxury will weep and beat themselves in grief over her, when they look at the smoke from the burning of her, 10 while they stand at a distance because of their fear of her torment and say, ‘Too bad, too bad, you great city, Babylon you strong city, because in one hour your judgment has arrived!’


11 “Also, the traveling merchants of the earth are weeping and mourning over her, because there is no one to buy their full stock anymore, 12 a full stock of gold and silver and precious stone and pearls and fine linen and purple and silk and scarlet; and everything in scented wood and every sort of ivory object and every sort of object out of most precious wood and of copper and of iron and of marble; 13 also cinnamon and Indian spice and incense and perfumed oil and frankincense and wine and olive oil and fine flour and wheat and cattle and sheep, and horses and coaches and slaves and human souls. 14 Yes, the fine fruit that your soul desired has departed from you, and all the dainty things and the gorgeous things have perished from you, and never again will people find them.


15 “The traveling merchants of these things, who became rich from her, will stand at a distance because of [their] fear of her torment and will weep and mourn, 16 saying, ‘Too bad, too bad—the great city, clothed with fine linen and purple and scarlet, and richly adorned with gold ornament and precious stone and pearl, 17 because in one hour such great riches have been devastated!’


“And every ship captain and every man that voyages anywhere, and sailors and all those who make a living by the sea, stood at a distance 18 and cried out as they looked at the smoke from the burning of her and said, ‘What city is like the great city?’ 19 And they threw dust upon their heads and cried out, weeping and mourning, and said, ‘Too bad, too bad—the great city, in which all those having boats at sea became rich by reason of her costliness, because in one hour she has been devastated!’


20 “Be glad over her, O heaven, also YOU holy ones and YOU apostles and YOU prophets, because God has judicially exacted punishment for YOU from her!”


21 And a strong angel lifted up a stone like a great millstone and hurled it into the sea, saying: “Thus with a swift pitch will Babylon the great city be hurled down, and she will never be found again. 22 And the sound of singers who accompany themselves on the harp and of musicians and of flutists and of trumpeters will never be heard in you again, and no craftsman of any trade will ever be found in you again, and no sound of a millstone will ever be heard in you again, 23 and no light of a lamp will ever shine in you again, and no voice of a bridegroom and of a bride will ever be heard in you again; because your traveling merchants were the top-ranking men of the earth, for by your spiritistic practice all the nations were misled.




Now I mentioned all of this to point out that the ten horns and the wild beast mentioned in Revelation 17:16 that destroy the harlot...are suppose to be political kingdoms or governments...which seem to correspond to the book of Daniel's explantion of what 'beasts' are.

Okay, so we have the destruction of the global and international harlot, Bablyon the Great at the hands of the governments or political powers of the world. And BTW, the interpretation of Babylon the Great being an international 'religious' kingdom  or system...seems go along with how the book of Revelation describes her.

But continuing with what I was saying...from what I can recall from "The Nations" book study...after the governmental/political powers destroy the international 'relgious' kingdom or system that once dominanated and controlled the people of the earth, the governmental/political powers are suppose to then turn on the one religion that is left of earth(and I think it was explained in the book study that they had been/were being protected by God), who are suppose to be the 'spiritual' Israelites, which is based on prophecies about the protection of ancient prototypical Israel in the book of Ezkeiel. And along with these spiritual Israelites are also the 'other' sheep class(which may have also been represented by one of the prophecies in Ezekiel...but I'm not sure) to make up the whole of the JW religion.

But getting back to what I was saying about how the governmental/political powers had already utterly destroyed the international kingdom or system of religion...with them being still bloodthirsty with the destruction of global religion....they then turn their attention to the one religion that is still is suppose to exist on earth...Jehovah's Witnesses. And when they finally attempt to also annihilate and completely destroy JWs...that is suppose to represent the governmental/political powers waging war on God himself...whcih according to JWs, constitutes Armageddon.

Therefore, does anyone see any problems with this explantion? Do JWs agree or disagree with this explanation...and/or did I leave anything out?

Any comments on this topic will be appreciated.

   

I think that it's pretty sad and pretty unbelievable that there are so many healthy, powerful, and healing foods that I have learned about from watching "The Doctor Oz Show"...but unfortunately, most Americans from their childhood on up, have only learned how to eat what is essentially equivalent to 'garbage'...and are basically in a 'slumber' when it comes to not having a clue as to what that kind of food is doing to their bodies and to their health. It's really sad.

~Ed2

"Hmmm. So you're saying that for Jesus' followers(throughout the centuries) to truly live a 'godly' life, they had to believe that the end of the world was just around the corner?"

~Ed2(See post #53)

"Although, I think that I'll change that to: Also...I liked the way that you dodged what I had said about being 'concerned that the Bible had to use subterfuge as a means to an end' in my post #137."

~Ed2(See post #145)

"It's utterly beyond belief, that the wealthiest country in the history of the world, fails to care for all it's people."

~Dr. Patrick Dowling, MD(From The Doctor Oz Show, which aired on 11/23/11.)

"If I could prescribe any drug on the planet, it would be food [be]cause it works better, faster, and cheaper than any medication. Food is the most powerful medicine we have...to treat chronic disease like diabetes."

~Dr. Mark Hyman, MD(From The Doctor Oz Show, which aired on 01/13/12. Also, go to www.doctoroz.com for more information.)
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 07, 2012 - 4:38PM #2
Regina_Jones
Posts: 134
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 07, 2012 - 4:48PM #3
Ed2
Posts: 3,322

Apr 7, 2012 -- 4:38PM, Regina_Jones wrote:


What exactly is Armageddon?  Here is a start for you:


www.watchtower.org/e/20051201/article_02...


www.watchtower.org/e/20080401/article_02...


www.watchtower.org/e/20051201/article_01...


www.watchtower.org/e/20080401/article_01...


www.watchtower.org/e/bh/appendix_09.htm




I appreciate you trying to provide information on what exactly Armageddon is. However, anyone can provide a link and say, 'go read that to find out.' However, what I was looking for was a discussion...with people giving their own views and their own explanations of things. Smile

I think that it's pretty sad and pretty unbelievable that there are so many healthy, powerful, and healing foods that I have learned about from watching "The Doctor Oz Show"...but unfortunately, most Americans from their childhood on up, have only learned how to eat what is essentially equivalent to 'garbage'...and are basically in a 'slumber' when it comes to not having a clue as to what that kind of food is doing to their bodies and to their health. It's really sad.

~Ed2

"Hmmm. So you're saying that for Jesus' followers(throughout the centuries) to truly live a 'godly' life, they had to believe that the end of the world was just around the corner?"

~Ed2(See post #53)

"Although, I think that I'll change that to: Also...I liked the way that you dodged what I had said about being 'concerned that the Bible had to use subterfuge as a means to an end' in my post #137."

~Ed2(See post #145)

"It's utterly beyond belief, that the wealthiest country in the history of the world, fails to care for all it's people."

~Dr. Patrick Dowling, MD(From The Doctor Oz Show, which aired on 11/23/11.)

"If I could prescribe any drug on the planet, it would be food [be]cause it works better, faster, and cheaper than any medication. Food is the most powerful medicine we have...to treat chronic disease like diabetes."

~Dr. Mark Hyman, MD(From The Doctor Oz Show, which aired on 01/13/12. Also, go to www.doctoroz.com for more information.)
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 07, 2012 - 5:06PM #4
Regina_Jones
Posts: 134

Apr 7, 2012 -- 4:48PM, Ed2 wrote:


Apr 7, 2012 -- 4:38PM, Regina_Jones wrote:


What exactly is Armageddon?  Here is a start for you:


www.watchtower.org/e/20051201/article_02...


www.watchtower.org/e/20080401/article_02...


www.watchtower.org/e/20051201/article_01...


www.watchtower.org/e/20080401/article_01...


www.watchtower.org/e/bh/appendix_09.htm



I appreciate you trying to provide information on what exactly Armageddon is. However, anyone can provide a link and say, 'go read that to find out.' However, what I was looking for was a discussion...with people giving their own views and their own explanations of things. Smile


Keeping to the question of your thread theme, go and read, as the various articles contain the answers to your question.  Discussion is sure to follow understanding.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 07, 2012 - 5:24PM #5
Ed2
Posts: 3,322

Apr 7, 2012 -- 5:06PM, Regina_Jones wrote:


Apr 7, 2012 -- 4:48PM, Ed2 wrote:


Apr 7, 2012 -- 4:38PM, Regina_Jones wrote:


What exactly is Armageddon?  Here is a start for you:


www.watchtower.org/e/20051201/article_02...


www.watchtower.org/e/20080401/article_02...


www.watchtower.org/e/20051201/article_01...


www.watchtower.org/e/20080401/article_01...


www.watchtower.org/e/bh/appendix_09.htm



I appreciate you trying to provide information on what exactly Armageddon is. However, anyone can provide a link and say, 'go read that to find out.' However, what I was looking for was a discussion...with people giving their own views and their own explanations of things. Smile


Keeping to the question of your thread theme, go and read, as the various articles contain the answers to your question.  Discussion is sure to follow understanding.



*Sigh*

I think that it's pretty sad and pretty unbelievable that there are so many healthy, powerful, and healing foods that I have learned about from watching "The Doctor Oz Show"...but unfortunately, most Americans from their childhood on up, have only learned how to eat what is essentially equivalent to 'garbage'...and are basically in a 'slumber' when it comes to not having a clue as to what that kind of food is doing to their bodies and to their health. It's really sad.

~Ed2

"Hmmm. So you're saying that for Jesus' followers(throughout the centuries) to truly live a 'godly' life, they had to believe that the end of the world was just around the corner?"

~Ed2(See post #53)

"Although, I think that I'll change that to: Also...I liked the way that you dodged what I had said about being 'concerned that the Bible had to use subterfuge as a means to an end' in my post #137."

~Ed2(See post #145)

"It's utterly beyond belief, that the wealthiest country in the history of the world, fails to care for all it's people."

~Dr. Patrick Dowling, MD(From The Doctor Oz Show, which aired on 11/23/11.)

"If I could prescribe any drug on the planet, it would be food [be]cause it works better, faster, and cheaper than any medication. Food is the most powerful medicine we have...to treat chronic disease like diabetes."

~Dr. Mark Hyman, MD(From The Doctor Oz Show, which aired on 01/13/12. Also, go to www.doctoroz.com for more information.)
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 07, 2012 - 5:33PM #6
Regina_Jones
Posts: 134

Apr 7, 2012 -- 5:24PM, Ed2 wrote:


Apr 7, 2012 -- 5:06PM, Regina_Jones wrote:


Apr 7, 2012 -- 4:48PM, Ed2 wrote:



I appreciate you trying to provide information on what exactly Armageddon is. However, anyone can provide a link and say, 'go read that to find out.' However, what I was looking for was a discussion...with people giving their own views and their own explanations of things. Smile


Keeping to the question of your thread theme, go and read, as the various articles contain the answers to your question.  Discussion is sure to follow understanding.



*Sigh*


Trust me, I understand.  Laziness is irritating.  Basing a discussion on your recall from decades ago rather than refreshing your undertanding with current information isn't really condusive to discussion.


So perhaps it is not discussion you are seeking after all?

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 07, 2012 - 5:48PM #7
cherubino
Posts: 7,277

I find these articles riddled with the epistemological contradictions that typify all JW literature, namely that the readers are left to decide for themselves what the difference is between a statement of empirical fact and a metaphor for connoting somebody's state of mind. And the tacit assumption therein is that people who are capable of making that distinction aren't worth the trouble that an explanation would necessarily entail. JW theology is comprehensible only to those whose verbal aptitude is limited to the denotative function of language.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 07, 2012 - 5:54PM #8
Theo
Posts: 4,687

Armageddon is a place in Israel where many historic battles were fought, and as for the prophecy is concerned, it is nothing but a footnote when compared to the rest of Scripture. Most Churches do not even have doctrine involving Armageddon... except as a most vague sort of reference. Even so, it's not surprising to me that the JWs would be all about an obscure thing like Armageddon and spend their time getting it all figured out - so that they have an issue they are informed about that nobody else cares about. My goodness people, have you nothing better to do with your time?


In summary, the devil is at war with God, and seeks to turn God's creation against Him. Armageddon symbolizes this conflict, where humanity joins with Satan to fight against God. It is a decisive battle ending Satan's dream of replacing God, resulting in his defeat and the deaths of all those who oppose the true knowledge of God.  


~ Theophilus

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 07, 2012 - 6:22PM #9
Regina_Jones
Posts: 134

Apr 7, 2012 -- 5:54PM, Theo wrote:


Armageddon is a place in Israel where many historic battles were fought, and as for the prophecy is concerned, it is nothing but a footnote when compared to the rest of Scripture. Most Churches do not even have doctrine involving Armageddon... except as a most vague sort of reference. Even so, it's not surprising to me that the JWs would be all about an obscure thing like Armageddon and spend their time getting it all figured out - so that they have an issue they are informed about that nobody else cares about. My goodness people, have you nothing better to do with your time?


In summary, the devil is at war with God, and seeks to turn God's creation against Him. Armageddon symbolizes this conflict, where humanity joins with Satan to fight against God. It is a decisive battle ending Satan's dream of replacing God, resulting in his defeat and the deaths of all those who oppose the true knowledge of God.  


~ Theophilus


Do you really believe that the final conflict between God and the forces of evil and preparing for it are unworthy of one's time?

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 07, 2012 - 7:13PM #10
cherubino
Posts: 7,277

Apr 7, 2012 -- 6:22PM, Regina_Jones wrote:


Do you really believe that the final conflict between God and the forces of evil and preparing for it are unworthy of one's time?




Speaking for myself, I can't think of a sadder way to fritter away one's life than to give in to the fears that prompt this sort of questioning. If you're afraid of what's going to happen after you die and you feel that you need a bedtime story to give meaning and comfort to your mortality, that is your problem for you to work out as best you can, just as coping with my impending death is my problem. And how I solve that is, frankly, nobody's business but mine.

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