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Switch to Forum Live View What exactly is Armageddon?
2 years ago  ::  Apr 12, 2012 - 2:52PM #221
Newtonian
Posts: 11,241

Apr 12, 2012 -- 7:02AM, Ed_3 wrote:


Apr 11, 2012 -- 12:20AM, Goodtobehomestill wrote:


Armageddon is just around the corner. It almost here. Watch out or it will get you.



God's promise of paradise, as Jesus promised to the evildoer hanging with him, and Peter spoke of as the 'new earth,' and Revelation 21:3,4 describes so beautifully, and several prophets described, is just around the corner.  It is almost here.  Keep spiritually awake, and you will be ready.



Well, I have to give credit to you for sounding idealistic, GTBSH, but I don't see how everything fits together when there are scriptures that use subterfuge as a means to an end...even though the scriptures also say that it is impossible for God to lie.(Hebrews 6:18, Titus 1:2)


Apr 11, 2012 -- 12:20AM, Goodtobehomestill wrote:


See, the children understand.  You, however, are confused.



Actually, I'm glad that you mentioned children, GTBHS...because I found a website that features information from "The Nations" book...and I would like to share with you a few interesting paragraphs from Chapter 20 of that book.


But I do want to warn everyone that the paragraphs are long, therefore, I will emphasize with maroon the pertainent points that I wanted to convey:



15 The hordes of Gog now invade the theocratic realm of spiritual Israel and violently attempt to despoil them. The provocative act thus occurs against these outwardly undefended witnesses of Jehovah, members of the New World society. Thieflike the unannounced day and hour of God's fixed time schedule then arrives for him to go forth and fight against the enemy as when he fought in ancient times in the day of battle. (Matthew 24:36; Revelation 16:15; 1 Thessalonians 5:2; Zechariah 14:3, AS) With the indignation of a taunted warrior he moves in and uses his battle weapons and strategy.


16 "And it shall come to pass in that day, in the day when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord Jehovah, [that] my fury shall come up in my face; for in my jealousy, in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Verily in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel; so that the fish of the sea, and the fowl of the heavens, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things which creep upon the earth, and all mankind that are upon the face of the earth shall shake at my presence; and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground. And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my mountains, saith the Lord Jehovah: every man's sword shall be against his brother. And I will enter into judgment with him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many peoples that are with him, overflowing rain and great hailstones, fire and brimstone. And I will magnify myself, and sanctify myself, and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I [am] Jehovah."  — Ezekiel 38:18-23, Da



But moving forward to paragraphs 19-24



19 Blood will run deep as the royal Avenger of blood on the white horse and his heavenly hosts ride their white horses of righteous, theocratic warfare into the symbolic "great winepress of the anger of God," where the "vine of the earth," the visible, earthly system weighted down with wicked offspring, has been hurled. "And the winepress was trodden outside the city [the New Jerusalem], and blood came out of the winepress as high up as the bridles of the horses, for a distance of a thousand six hundred furlongs [two hundred miles]."  — Revelation 14:18-20, NW.


20 Why should not blood run deep and far with over two billion dead? [Ed_3: Well, in 2012, the body would now be 7 billion.] Was there ever a war of the length of Armageddon's duration that left even a billion dead? Have all the wars of mankind's existence killed directly a total of two billion warriors? The global flood of Noah's day, which the Bible uses as a prophetic type of Armageddon, drowned all humans except the eight in the ark, and the human population must then have numbered many millions. But Armageddon will be a "tribulation such as has not occurred from the beginning of the creation which God created until that time and will not occur again." (Mark 13:19, NW;Matthew 24:21; Daniel 12:1) With the members of this generation that will not pass away before Armageddon breaks out numbering now two billion five hundred million and with only the remnant and a larger group of "other sheep" inside the Greater Noah's "ark" surviving, the death toll of the "war of the great day of God the Almighty" will be appallingly all-surpassing, too many for the Armageddon survivors to bury.


21 Come on, birds and beasts! Have your fill then from the human corpses in retribution for the wanton slaughter of animal and birdlife of which the human race has been guilty! Jehovah the great Avenger will give you mistreated creatures your day: "And thou, son of man, thus saith the Lord Jehovah: Speak unto the birds of every wing, and to every beast of the field, Gather yourselves together, and come, assemble yourselves on every side to my sacrifice which I sacrifice for you, a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood. Ye shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and drink the blood of the princes of the earth, of rams, of lambs, and of goats, [and] of bullocks, all of them fatted beasts of Bashan. And ye shall eat fat till ye are full, and drink blood till ye are drunken, of my sacrifice which I sacrifice for you. And ye shall be filled at my table with horses and charioteers, with mighty men, and with all men of war, saith the Lord Jehovah. And I will set my glory among the nations, and all the nations shall see my judgment which I [not Israel] have executed, and my hand which I have laid upon them. And the house of Israel shall know that I [am] Jehovah their God from that day and forward." — Ezekiel 39:17-22, Da.


22Not a human on the side against Jehovah's theocratic organization will survive. None of their dead will be given a decent burial in memorial tombs. The extent of the slaughter may be measured by the number of the enemy taking part in the war and being annihilated. The wood of the weapons of Gog's hordes, the shields, targets, bows and arrows, handstaves and spears, will be so immense a pile that it will take seven years to use it up as fuel, without collecting any wood from the forests. What wealth the exterminated ones will leave behind! The would-be despoilers of Jehovah's people will themselves be despoiled. — Ezekiel 39:8-10.


23 Some time after the war has killed off all the visible, earthly enemy the land will be cleansed of flesh-stripped, sun-bleached bones, by their being collected and put out of sight. Jehovah's decree is: "And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] I will give unto Gog a place there for burial in Israel, the valley of the passers-by to the east of the sea; and it shall stop [the way] of the passers-by; and there shall they bury Gog and all the multitude; and they shall call it, Valley of Hamon-Gog [meaning Multitude of Gog]. And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying them [so many will be the slain], that they may cleanse the land; and all the people of the land shall bury [them]; and it shall be to them for renown in the day that I shall be glorified, saith the Lord Jehovah. And they shall sever out men of continual employment to go through the land, who, with the passers-by, shall bury those that remain upon the face of the land, to cleanse it: at the end of seven months shall they make a search. And the passers-by shall pass through the land, and when [any] seeth a man's bone, he shall set up a sign by it, till the buriers have buried it in the Valley of Hamon-Gog. And also the name of the city shall be Hamonah [meaning Multitude]. Thus shall they cleanse the land."


24 There will be a total cleansing of the land of unclean enemy bones. No memorial tombs symbolizing hope of a resurrection will be built for these nameless, unidentifiable bones. The name of the citylike organization for bone disposal will celebrate Jehovah's victory over so tremendous a multitude. — Ezekiel 39:11-16, Da.


www.strictlygenteel.co.uk/survivearmaged...



Now the way that I am understanding this is that not only are the governmental/military forces who attack and try to destroy the remnant of spiritual Israel and the rest of JWs, spoken against very harshly and very disparagingly, which includes their very violent and very lethiferous destruction...but also anyone else in the world who do not support JWs' interpretion of God's Kingdom(and thus, who do not support God's Kingdom in JWs' eyes)...which by default, includes them amongst Gog and Magog's hordes.


Therefore, this would include nonviolent people and people such as doctors and other health care workers who spend a good part of their lives helping and caring for the health and welfare of other people. Also, this would include sick people in hostipal and nursing homes...who may not have excepted JWs' message at one time, but who are now struggling with their health...and/or just struggling to stay alive.


Plus, as JWs have admitted before, this would also include children who will die at Armaggeddon because they are in the care of parents who have not accepted JWs' message.


But worse of all, this would include new born babies who may have just came home with their mothers from the hospital...or new born babies who are still in the hospital and who are trying to get healthier in the NICU.


However though, I personally think that it's harsh, insensitive, and non compassionate for the Bible(or JWs' interpretation of the Bible) to lump everyone together who are not associated with JWs as a group...as being part of Gog and Magog's crowd or horde. 


Plus, coupled with some of the things that GTBHS said in her post #151...


Apr 9, 2012 -- 9:14PM, Goodtobehomestill wrote:


Carrion birds do eat dead bodies, so it very well may occur, however, we also understand there is imagery in the description.


*** w79 8/1 p. 32 Questions From Readers ***
Thus it shows that the execution, being left unburied and being consumed by the birds represents complete rejection by God

) On this The Tyndale New Testament Commentary states: “The picture of destruction is completed with the statement that the birds were sated with the flesh of the slain, a common piece of imagery for final disaster.”



*** w67 7/1 pp. 407-408 Can Any War Be Wholly Just? ***
The ones slaughtered at Armageddon are shown as being left as food for the carrion-eating birds of the heavens.



...I think that the Bible imagery and accomanying commentaries above, are pretty insensitive to all human beings who don't happen to agree with and embrace JWs' message...regardless of their age and their health.



Edited: Made corrections in sentence above.







Ed - On post 212 there is a glaring problem with your post which is otherwise fairly accurate.    It is your use of this term repeatedly:


"JWs' interpretion of God's Kingdom."


The Bible is where we get infallible information about Armageddon, and the Bible never uses the term "JWs  interpretation of God'ds Kingdom."


You should have simply posted "God's Kingdom" and then posted the Scriptures that prove the statements  you made.


Also you seem to be ingnoring the fact that at Armageddon those who are not simply wicked, but actually fight against God's Kingdom will be victims of the flesh eating plague, to wit:


(Zechariah 14:12) . . ."And this is what will prove to be the scourge with which Jehovah will scourge all the peoples that will actually do military service against Jerusalem: There will be a rotting away of one’s flesh, while one is standing upon one’s feet; and one’s very eyes will rot away in their sockets, and one’s very tongue will rot away in one’s mouth.


Now, sure, you can add our interpretation of this verse, if you would like.   But you are forgetting that the things you are complaining about are what is specifically written in the Bible, not merely our interpretation of the Bible.


In short, Armageddon will be the destruction of the world - i.e. a common definition of "world" in the Bible - i.e. the "world" of which God's people, are no part - as Jesus repeatedly foretold. 


Also, you assume that many honest hearted people will be destroyed at Armageddon, rather than actually obeying the good news.   However, niether you nor I nor us know this - what we do know is that Jehovah does not desire for them to be destroyed:


(2 Peter 3:9) Jehovah is not slow respecting his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with YOU because he does not desire any to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance.


Yet, verse 7 does show the ungodly men will be destroyed.  Other verses go into more detail and do not lump the world together, as you put it - Zech.14:12 is but one example of singling out those who actually cause tribulation for God's people, rather than simply disobeying the good news, to wit:


(2 Thessalonians 1:6-10) . . .This takes into account that it is righteous on God’s part to repay tribulation to those who make tribulation for YOU, 7 but, to YOU who suffer tribulation, relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels 8 in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance upon those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. 9 These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength, 10 at the time he comes to be glorified in connection with his holy ones and to be regarded in that day with wonder in connection with all those who exercised faith, because the witness we gave met with faith among YOU.


OK, you in effect are saying it is not "righteous on God's part" - but you also are not accurate as to what "it" will be - and, at any rate, we disagree with you - we agree it is righteous on God's part to destroy the wicked at Armageddon when we realize how hard he is having his Witnesses try to help people become reconciled to God.


(2 Corinthians 5:18-20) . . .But all things are from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of the reconciliation, 19 namely, that God was by means of Christ reconciling a world to himself, not reckoning to them their trespasses, and he committed the word of the reconciliation to us. 20 We are therefore ambassadors substituting for Christ, as though God were making entreaty through us. As substitutes for Christ we beg: "Become reconciled to God."


In other words, you are ignoring the heartfelt "ministry of the reconciliation" that Jehovah's Witnesses teach and preach!

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 12, 2012 - 2:53PM #222
mrjordan
Posts: 1,834

Apr 12, 2012 -- 2:13PM, Oeste wrote:


Apr 11, 2012 -- 11:47PM, mrjordan wrote:


Apr 11, 2012 -- 11:29PM, understandingtruth wrote:



I agree again they were active preachers but what they preached publicly was Jesus resurrected & salvation through Him, what they taught privately was principles for pursueing a life after Christ and it was to those who professed to believe in Him.


 




Forgive me...but WHAT? You say, "what they taught privately was principles for pursueing a life after Christ and it was to those who professed to believe in Him."


To teach "privately" the principles of pursuing Christ goes against everything Christ died for.


To think that the "public" message is different from the "private" message is just...well, frankly it just makes me see why people do not trust most religions.




So in Kingdom Halls, individual(s) are never counseled privately, but publically?


In Christian churches, one can certainly have private sessions on pursuing a life after Christ. The message is tailored for the individual. There would be no need to make any obstacles and impediments the individual(s) is facing public unless their was some immediate and imminent danger to the congregation.


Why do you say this "goes against everything Christ died for"?


I don't see that at all.




There are times to counsel people privately. I have also seen where a whole congregation has been counseled after a meeting from stage.


What I read was "What they taught privately was principles for pursueing a life after Christ". Why should preaching these principles be private?

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 12, 2012 - 3:01PM #223
Newtonian
Posts: 11,241

Oeste - I was brought up Lutheran, albeit my mom was really Dutch Reformed - and I was not taught by this religion "privately" anything - my mom did teach me things, but this was not sponsored by either religion.  


Also among the many Bible students from various religions whom I have taught the Bible they also never mentioned anything they were taught "privately" by their religion which was different from what they were taught "publicly."


The Lutheran church taught me that God's Kingdom was in our hearts, quoting KJV where Jesus is misquoted as saying "the kingdom of God is within you."


Thankfully, Jehovah's Witnesses have taught us what God's Kingdom really is - and thus we give allegiance to only one Government, the Kingdom of God.   For this and other reasons, Jehovah's Witnesses do not pledge allegiance to any human government but are loyal to our government, and the anointed King of God's Kingdom: Jesus Christ.  (see, for example, Matthew 5:44).

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 12, 2012 - 3:09PM #224
Newtonian
Posts: 11,241

Mr. Jordan - Hi!  Good posts!   However, I am totally unfamiliar with any religion teaching different things privately rather than publicly - does this actually happen in some religions?


I mean, I know this happens in secretive religions, like the Freemasons - but I mean the mainline religions of Christendom?


 

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 12, 2012 - 3:26PM #225
Newtonian
Posts: 11,241

Apr 12, 2012 -- 1:16PM, Kemmer wrote:


... Hold on there you ignorant of true bible knowedge, those  false religions killed their own children  baby boys  and virgin girls in a horrible cruel death the girls  had to  jump  alive to be burned to death, the boy babies had their genitalia removed while alive  and eaten by those pagan priests or  their hearts all to  their false gods.



You JWs are always gossiping about the poor Caananites, whom the Hebrews swindled out of their country on the flimsiest of grounds:  "Our God promised us your well-tilled and watered land, like ages ago.  So hit the road Jack!"




Kemmer -


The Caananites had an almost unimaginably evil religion, as whatever posted testified to. 


In sharp contrast with the Israelites, the inhabitants of Canaan offered their children as sacrifices to their gods, including the Ammonite god called Molech, also known as Milcom or Moloch. (1 Kings 11:5, 7, 33; Acts 7:43) Halley’s Bible Handbook says: “Canaanites worshipped, by immoral indulgence, as a religious rite, in the presence of their gods; and then, by murdering their first-born children, as a sacrifice to these same gods.” - "The Watchtower," 4/1/07, p. 18


"19. The Bible Handbook, by Henry H. Halley, notes that at Megiddo, archaeologists found the ruins of a temple of Ashtoreth, goddess-wife of Baal. He writes: “Just a few steps from this temple was a cemetery, where many jars were found, containing remains of infants who had been sacrificed in this temple . . . Prophets of Baal and Ashtoreth were official murderers of little children.” “Another horrible practice was [what] they called ‘foundation sacrifices.’ When a house was to be built, a child would be sacrificed, and its body built into the wall.”


20 Halley comments: “The worship of Baal, Ashtoreth, and other Canaanite gods consisted in the most extravagant orgies; their temples were centers of vice. . . . Canaanites worshiped, by immoral indulgence, . . . and then, by murdering their first-born children, as a sacrifice to these same gods. It seems that, in large measure, the land of Canaan had become a sort of Sodom and Gomorrah on a national scale. . . . Did a civilization of such abominable filth and brutality have any right longer to exist? . . . Archaeologists who dig in the ruins of Canaanite cities wonder that God did not destroy them sooner than He did.”—Compare 1 Kings 21:25, 26." - Ibid., 4/1/97, pp. 17,18.


Now that you know the truth, do you still complain that God had Israel clear the promised land of these evil peoples?


In that case,  guess you would also condemn God for destroying the destroyers of the earth as per Revelation 11:18 and thread theme!



Moderated by nanalulu222 on Apr 12, 2012 - 06:35PM
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 12, 2012 - 7:02PM #226
Ed_3
Posts: 500

Apr 12, 2012 -- 2:52PM, Newtonian wrote:


Ed - On post 212 there is a glaring problem with your post which is otherwise fairly accurate.    It is your use of this term repeatedly:


"JWs' interpretion of God's Kingdom."



Oh wow. Well, if that's virtually the only thing that you disagree with...then I'll say that you're being pretty honest.


Apr 12, 2012 -- 2:52PM, Newtonian wrote:


The Bible is where we get infallible information about Armageddon, and the Bible never uses the term "JWs  interpretation of God'ds Kingdom."


You should have simply posted "God's Kingdom" and then posted the Scriptures that prove the statements  you made.



Um, noted. However, regardless of whether JWs' interpretation of God's Kingdom is correct or is not correct...it's still JWs' interpretation of God's Kingdom.


Apr 12, 2012 -- 2:52PM, Newtonian wrote:


Also you seem to be ingnoring the fact that at Armageddon those who are not simply wicked, but actually fight against God's Kingdom will be victims of the flesh eating plague, to wit:


(Zechariah 14:12) . . ."And this is what will prove to be the scourge with which Jehovah will scourge all the peoples that will actually do military service against Jerusalem: There will be a rotting away of one’s flesh, while one is standing upon one’s feet; and one’s very eyes will rot away in their sockets, and one’s very tongue will rot away in one’s mouth.



I'm sorry, but you're going to have to explain what you mean by: "those who are not simply wicked, but actually fight against God's Kingdom" ....because I do not understand what you are talking about.


Apr 12, 2012 -- 2:52PM, Newtonian wrote:


Now, sure, you can add our interpretation of this verse, if you would like.   But you are forgetting that the things you are complaining about are what is specifically written in the Bible, not merely our interpretation of the Bible.


In short, Armageddon will be the destruction of the world - i.e. a common definition of "world" in the Bible - i.e. the "world" of which God's people, are no part - as Jesus repeatedly foretold. 


Also, you assume that many honest hearted people will be destroyed at Armageddon, rather than actually obeying the good news.   However, niether you nor I nor us know this. . .



I'm sorry, Newtonian, but you misunderstood what I was saying. After all, who really is 100% honest hearted? However, the point that I was making was that the way that the scriptures in Ezekiel are written and the commentaries that have been made about those scriptures make it sound sound very insensitive(and even a bit bloodthirsty) on Jehovah's part as far as how he...or the Bible is depicting everyone who is going to be killed at Armageddon...and not just the agressive political/militaristic elements in the world.


Apr 12, 2012 -- 2:52PM, Newtonian wrote:


- what we do know is that Jehovah does not desire for them to be destroyed:


(2 Peter 3:9) Jehovah is not slow respecting his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with YOU because he does not desire any to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance.


Yet, verse 7 does show the ungodly men will be destroyed.  Other verses go into more detail and do not lump the world together, as you put it - Zech.14:12 is but one example of singling out those who actually cause tribulation for God's people, rather than simply disobeying the good news, to wit:


(2 Thessalonians 1:6-10) . . .This takes into account that it is righteous on God’s part to repay tribulation to those who make tribulation for YOU, 7 but, to YOU who suffer tribulation, relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels 8 in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance upon those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. 9 These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength, 10 at the time he comes to be glorified in connection with his holy ones and to be regarded in that day with wonder in connection with all those who exercised faith, because the witness we gave met with faith among YOU.



So what's your point? Just because some scriptures don't lump everyone together...doesn't mean that the scriptures in Ezekiel and elsewhere are not lumping everyone together. ...You know...'bird food'...which "represents complete rejection by God" as the 1979 Watchtower QFR stated...which would include children and babies. 


Apr 12, 2012 -- 2:52PM, Newtonian wrote:


OK, you in effect are saying it is not "righteous on God's part" - but you also are not accurate as to what "it" will be - and, at any rate, we disagree with you - we agree it is righteous on God's part to destroy the wicked at Armageddon when we realize how hard he is having his Witnesses try to help people become reconciled to God.



What "it" will be? Sorry, Bub, but I'm not understanding what you are saying.


Apr 12, 2012 -- 2:52PM, Newtonian wrote:


(2 Corinthians 5:18-20) . . .But all things are from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of the reconciliation, 19 namely, that God was by means of Christ reconciling a world to himself, not reckoning to them their trespasses, and he committed the word of the reconciliation to us. 20 We are therefore ambassadors substituting for Christ, as though God were making entreaty through us. As substitutes for Christ we beg: "Become reconciled to God."


In other words, you are ignoring the heartfelt "ministry of the reconciliation" that Jehovah's Witnesses teach and preach!



So are you saying that the scathing and demeaning and and insensitive and bloodthirsty remarks in Ezekiel and in Ezekiel commentaries about everyone on planet earth who are going to be killed during Armageddon are justified...because of the preaching work that JWs are doing?

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 12, 2012 - 7:10PM #227
Goodtobehomestill
Posts: 6,583

So are you saying that the scathing and demeaning and and insensitive and bloodthirsty remarks in Ezekiel and in Ezekiel commentaries about everyone on planet earth who are going to be killed during Armageddon are justified...because of the preaching work that JWs are doing?--Ed



If Jehovah were 'insensitive' to people, he would not be sending his servants to warn mankind in time to turn to the protection he offers.  I understand you view the commentary as bloodthirsty, and certainly it paints a rather dire picture, but view it relative to the 'big picture.'  Armageddon will end all poverty, crime, sickness, death, pain, child abuse, violence, war.  There will be no tragic occurences after the day of God's war.  If you look at it from that standpoint, it would be 'bloodthirsty' on God's part to allow the situation as it exists today, to continue.  Armageddon is 'justified' by what it will accomplish.

“People are not disturbed by things, but by the views they take of them.”
― Epictetus

Life is like photography, you need a clear lens, and the picture you get depends on what you focus on.


Anger stems from irrational beliefs about others, anxiety stems from irrational beliefs about yourself.---Spencer Lord, The Brain Mechanic
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 12, 2012 - 7:50PM #228
cherubino
Posts: 7,277

Apr 12, 2012 -- 7:10PM, Goodtobehomestill wrote:


If Jehovah were 'insensitive' to people, he would not be sending his servants to warn mankind in time to turn to the protection he offers. 




Yikes, that's an extortion line right out of organized crime's playbook.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 12, 2012 - 8:00PM #229
Goodtobehomestill
Posts: 6,583

Let it be noted, that anyone who has prayed the 'model prayer' has prayed for Armageddon to come.  The kingdom doesn't arrive quietly, but by 'crushing and putting an end to all other kingdoms.  Dan 2:44


God's 'will on earth' is that all crime, poverty, war, abuse, death be brought to an end, and that is what Armageddon will bring about.  Will some innocent babies die?  So it would appear.  Would it be better for God to leave the situation as it is, where babies die of disease, starvation, neglect, their parents own hands, or in partial-birth abortions which profit the doctors who sell the body parts of the babies, with brains fetching $1000?


Which picture is more dire, the picture where it all ends, or the picture where the hopeless situation just continues on until we either suffer forever, we and our offspring, or we obliterate ourselves?

“People are not disturbed by things, but by the views they take of them.”
― Epictetus

Life is like photography, you need a clear lens, and the picture you get depends on what you focus on.


Anger stems from irrational beliefs about others, anxiety stems from irrational beliefs about yourself.---Spencer Lord, The Brain Mechanic
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 12, 2012 - 8:01PM #230
Goodtobehomestill
Posts: 6,583

Apr 12, 2012 -- 7:50PM, cherubino wrote:


Apr 12, 2012 -- 7:10PM, Goodtobehomestill wrote:


If Jehovah were 'insensitive' to people, he would not be sending his servants to warn mankind in time to turn to the protection he offers. 




Yikes, that's an extortion line right out of organized crime's playbook.




Except that we don't want anything from you except for your brotherhood and help in turning the Earth back the way God intended for it to be.

“People are not disturbed by things, but by the views they take of them.”
― Epictetus

Life is like photography, you need a clear lens, and the picture you get depends on what you focus on.


Anger stems from irrational beliefs about others, anxiety stems from irrational beliefs about yourself.---Spencer Lord, The Brain Mechanic
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