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Switch to Forum Live View What exactly is Armageddon?
6 years ago  ::  Apr 11, 2012 - 9:55AM #191
Knowsnothing
Posts: 1,151
God is love, therefore hell is an acceptable punishment. (reasoning some christians provide)

God is love, therefore Armageddon is a just punishment (according to JWs and some non-JW christians)

Honestly, not much difference. Let me try one.

God is love, therefore his question of Universal Sovereignty overrides any suffering on behalf of creation.

Wow, this one rule is so powerful, it let's God get away with murder!
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6 years ago  ::  Apr 11, 2012 - 10:59AM #192
Oeste
Posts: 3,711


Apr 10, 2012 -- 10:47PM, Oeste wrote:

Armageddon is just around the corner. It almost here. Watch out or it will get you.



Apr 11, 2012 -- 12:20AM, Goodtobehomestill wrote:


God's promise of paradise, as Jesus promised to the evildoer hanging with him, and Peter spoke of as the 'new earth,' and Revelation 21:3,4 describes so beautifully, and several prophets described, is just around the corner.  It is almost here.  Keep spiritually awake, and you will be ready.



There's a city destroyed in the background GTBH with smiling people coming out.


It reminds me of Hitler's version for Nazi Germany. Smiling happy Germans, all living in their cottages. The only difference is that the Watcthower paints a destroyed city, while Hitler would have painted an extermination camp in the background.


The only difference between your message and Hitler's is that Hitler blamed the Jews, Poles, gypsies, and Catholic clergy. The Watchtower just blames the Christian clergy.


The Watchtower's envisionment of a "final solution" is not what I read in my bible.


Apr 11, 2012 -- 12:20AM, Goodtobehomestill wrote:


See, the children understand.  You, however, are confused.



What  the children understand is that they need to be "prove" their love of God by working for your Organization or Armageddon will get them. And no, I'm not confused. The problem comes when you mix the Watchtower's message with God's message. Therein lies the "confusion".


Apr 11, 2012 -- 12:20AM, Goodtobehomestill wrote:


You can't 'villify' Armageddon. Not and call yourself someone who supports God's agenda in this whole scenario.   It is God's war, waged by Christ.  Call it 'doomsday' and you take what God judges as right, and judge it as 'wrong.'  I do call that confused.




Where did I "villify" Armageddon?  We'll all be held accounatable for our actions, won't we? So I see nothing wrong with a day of judgement...my own, or anyone else's.


The only thing that happened in my post was that the Watchtower "villified" itself. Mixing God's plan with the Watchtower's plan is what I call confused.


As Marken put it so eloquently stated six months ago regarding excommunicated Witnesses:


Oct 28, 2011 -- 1:57PM, marken wrote:


We  know  that  ex's  will  truly  be  x'd very  soon.  


with  affection  from  Marken



There is nothing right about the Watchtower plan. It's just plain wrong:


*** sr 1955 pp. 340-342 The Universal War of Armageddon Breaks Out ***



Why should not blood run deep and far with over two billion dead? Was there ever a war of the length of Armageddon's duration that left even a billion dead? .... With the members of this generation that will not pass away before Armageddon breaks out numbering now two billion five hundred million and with only the remnant and a larger group of "other sheep" inside the Greater Noah's "ark" surviving, the death toll of the "war of the great day of God the Almighty" will be appallingly all-surpassing, too many for the Armageddon survivors to bury. Come on, birds and beasts! Have your fill then from the human corpses in retribution for the wanton slaughter of animal and birdlife of which the human race has been guilty!



*** w58 10/15 pp. 614-615 What Will Armageddon Mean to You ***  As for humans upon earth, on the side of Jehovah will be all those fully dedicated to him and who are faithfully following Jesus Christ; compared with earth’s billions these are indeed few.... On Satan’s side will be all the rest of mankind, more than 99.9 percent, even as we read: "The whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one." That includes all the governments of the world together with their supporters, the commercial, religious and social institutions.... Armageddon will be the worst thing ever to hit this earth in the history of man. It will be marked by shocking surprise, consternation, fright, collapse of government, tremendous upheavals of earth, landslides, cloudbursts, overflowing flash-floods, rain of corrosive liquid fire and terror in the air, on land and in the sea. *** w61 7/15 p. 420 A Time and Place for Everything ***



When a person persists in a way of badness after knowing what is right, when the bad becomes so ingrained that it is an inseparable part of his make-up, then in order to hate what is bad a Christian must hate the person with whom the badness is inseparably linked.



*** w61 12/1 pp. 724-725 United Against Nations in the Valley of Decision ***



"Into the valley of decision, as into a vast wine-press trough, the King leaps with his army of holy angels. SQUASH! The treading of the nations, including Christendom, begins... Never before in all human history will so many human creatures have been slaughtered. Blood, as representing human lives poured out, will run deep and over a vast distance... With breathless awe they [the survivors] will have looked down from their safe heights into the valley of decision and witnessed how Jehovah gains his magnificent victory by Christ over all the combined nations of Satan’s visible organization. At His victory in vindication of his universal sovereignty we witnesses will sing his praises exultantly and will acknowledge him as our God for all time and eternity. We are near the time of his battle and transcendant victory.



*** w65 4/1 p. 212 Fulfulling the New Commandment of Love ***  Yes, today, with Armageddon staring us in the face, we must keep in mind the sobering thought that millions, even billions, of lives may shortly come to a swift and decisive end, putting their onetime owners beyond the reach of any expression of love on our part.



*** w05 12/1 p. 6 Armageddon -- A Happy Beginning ***  "Many wonder, however, why a God who is the very embodiment of love would inflict death and destruction on much of humankind. The situation might be compared to that of a pest-infested house. Would you not agree that a conscientious homeowner should safeguard the health and well-being of his family by exterminating the pests? ... The battle of Armageddon is actually one of the best things that could happen to us!



What's confused is your insistance that God is going to wage a war against the earth on the Watchtower's behalf.  It's totally confused and the musings of a spiritually sick organization.

Never argue with stupid people. They will drag
you down to their level and then beat you with
experience ~ Mark Twain

If you are neutral on situations of injustice
you have chosen the side of the oppressor ~
Desmond Tutu
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6 years ago  ::  Apr 11, 2012 - 11:43AM #193
Kemmer
Posts: 18,459

*** w05 12/1 p. 6 Armageddon -- A Happy Beginning ***  "Many wonder, however, why a God who is the very embodiment of love would inflict death and destruction on much of humankind.



Do tell.


 

The situation might be compared to that of a pest-infested house. Would you not agree that a conscientious homeowner should safeguard the health and well-being of his family by exterminating the pests?



Pests like the hateful in-laws and crazy Uncle Clem who came for Christmas and are still here!


 

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6 years ago  ::  Apr 11, 2012 - 2:02PM #194
marken
Posts: 3,749

Apr 11, 2012 -- 9:55AM, Knowsnothing wrote:

God is love, therefore hell is an acceptable punishment. (reasoning some christians provide) God is love, therefore Armageddon is a just punishment (according to JWs and some non-JW christians) Honestly, not much difference. Let me try one. God is love, therefore his question of Universal Sovereignty overrides any suffering on behalf of creation. Wow, this one rule is so powerful, it let's God get away with murder!



Since  hell  is  the  grave or  state  of  death,  it is  in  harmony  with  a  God  of  love.  He  warned  mankind  that  if  they  became  sinners,  that  would  be  their  future.  He immediately  made  a  provision  for  them  to  be  ransomed  from  that  state,  and  he provided  the  ransom  in  his  Son.  Nothing  can  be  more  loving  than  that. 


Armageddon  is  the  ridding  of  the  world  of  all  the  corruption  and  violence  that  sin  has  brought  up  on it and  also  the putting into  an abyss  the  spiritual  person  that  was  the  catalyst  for  all  of  it.  In  that  way,  Jesus  can  restore  humans  to  the  condition  that  God  created  adam  and  eve  in  .


Jehovah  IS  the  universal  sovereign and  he  knew  when  he  allowed  sin  to  enter  the  earth that  it  would  cause  much  suffering.   Through his  arrangement(God's  kingdom) however,  all  this  suffering  will  be  done  away  with and  all  things  will  be  made  new.  


If  you  do  not  want  to  live  under  this  arrangement(Rev  21:1-7)  you  will  not  be  forced  to  do  so.  If  you  want  to  be  one  of  the  persons  mentioned  in  the  next  verse,  you  will join  all  wickedness  in  the  lake of  fire  or  eternal  destruction. 


No  one  will  be  put  there  that  does  not  choose. Today  and  in  the  past  aeons  since  adam  and  eve,  many have  been  this  type  of  person because  of  their  environment  and  lack of  accurate  knowledge.  That  is  the purpose  of  the  resurrection. 


Today  Jesus  is  educating  anyone  who  wants  to  listen  about  this  Kingdom(Matt 24:14)  If  one  chooses  not  to  listen,  they cannot  blame  others.   If  they  are  unable  to  listen,  we can  be  grateful that  it  is  the  King  appointed  by Jehovah  that  is their  judge.  Yes,  he  is  completely  fair  and  will  make  no  mistakes. 


with  affection  from  Marken

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6 years ago  ::  Apr 11, 2012 - 2:10PM #195
Kemmer
Posts: 18,459

Today  Jesus the JWs  is are  educating  anyone  who  wants  to  listen  about  this  Kingdom(Matt 24:14)  If  one  chooses  not  to  listen,  they cannot  blame  others.



"My" kindom conflicts with "your" kingdom, and mine was here first.

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6 years ago  ::  Apr 11, 2012 - 5:37PM #196
DNT
Posts: 1,514

Hey Ostes


What's confused is your insistence that God is going to wage a war against the earth on the Watchtower's behalf.  It's totally confused and the musings of a spiritually sick organization.


This is a great point, that jw do not get, Armageddon is a war between the armies of the earth,they gather together to fight each other, but God steps in and destroys them all. It says some where in the Bible that we will come so close to destroying the earth that if God did not step in we would have, the verse eludes me at the moment.


God Bless You


Denis.

1Ti 3:16  And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
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6 years ago  ::  Apr 11, 2012 - 5:42PM #197
Kemmer
Posts: 18,459

 It says some where in the Bible that we will come so close to destroying the earth that if God did not step in we would have, the verse eludes me at the moment.



Stories My Momma Done Tol' Me,  p.53

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6 years ago  ::  Apr 11, 2012 - 6:00PM #198
mecdukebec
Posts: 16,084

Apr 11, 2012 -- 5:37PM, DNT wrote:


Hey Ostes


What's confused is your insistence that God is going to wage a war against the earth on the Watchtower's behalf.  It's totally confused and the musings of a spiritually sick organization.


This is a great point, that jw do not get, Armageddon is a war between the armies of the earth,they gather together to fight each other, but God steps in and destroys them all. It says some where in the Bible that we will come so close to destroying the earth that if God did not step in we would have, the verse eludes me at the moment.


God Bless You


Denis.





How does one know that the bugbear, Constantine, didn't put that verse in the NT?  Sort of the same LDS dillema:  "Sure, heckyeah, the Bible was doctored, but not the passages prediciting presciently JS."

*******

"Wesley told the early Methodists to gain all they could and save all they could so that they could give all they could. It means that I consider my money to belong to God and I see myself as one of the hungry people who needs to get fed with God’s money. If I really have put all my trust in Jesus Christ as savior and Lord, then nothing I have is really my own anymore."
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6 years ago  ::  Apr 11, 2012 - 6:11PM #199
DNT
Posts: 1,514

Apr 11, 2012 -- 6:00PM, mecdukebec wrote:

Apr 11, 2012 -- 5:37PM, DNT wrote:


Hey Ostes


What's confused is your insistence that God is going to wage a war against the earth on the Watchtower's behalf.  It's totally confused and the musings of a spiritually sick organization.


This is a great point, that jw do not get, Armageddon is a war between the armies of the earth,they gather together to fight each other, but God steps in and destroys them all. It says some where in the Bible that we will come so close to destroying the earth that if God did not step in we would have, the verse eludes me at the moment.


God Bless You


Denis.





How does one know that the bugbear, Constantine, didn't put that verse in the NT?  Sort of the same LDS dillema:  "Sure, heckyeah, the Bible was doctored, but not the passages prediciting presciently JS."


Hey mecdukebec


Well i don't believe that Constantine had any input what so ever when it comes to the Bible. The Bible is the inerrant word of God and if a verse is there, its the truth.


God Bless You


Denis.

1Ti 3:16  And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
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6 years ago  ::  Apr 11, 2012 - 6:15PM #200
Kemmer
Posts: 18,459

Well i don't believe that Constantine had any input what so ever when it comes to the Bible. The Bible is the inerrant word of God and if a verse is there, its the truth.



I assume you follow the levitical prohibitions to the letter?

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