To assume that all unrightousness is destroyed after the first war is inaccurate.  To assume that when the bible talks about destroying unrightouesness it is referancing the first war is inaccurate since that would make it unneccessary to have a second war.  To assume that every time you read about Gods day of war or day of vengance it is referancing Armagedon or the first war is presumptuous since God will have more than one day of war and more than one vengance.  Therefore we cannot just presume that a referance to war or vengance places a prophecy in a certain timeline but rather the context of that prophecy should give us deeper insight into when it must be taking place.

Now if we consider what God has said & when it must take place, things like perfection and earth & humanity in relation to perfection, it should become much clearer what war or vengance God is referancing.  Again, how do you have some perfection & some inperfection living together?  How do you grow perfection verses God simply changing imperfection into perfection by His Will?  It does not appear that He intends to grow perfection but instead to change what is into what He intends it to be.  That is what He states as His Will at the end of the 1000yrs & clearly after the last battle / war.  How do you get so many people to follow Satan on a whim from a perfect world?  In theory by the time he is released the planet should be just about perfect and yet it sounds anything but by what is discribed as the last battle and the masses that are willing to join him.  How do perfect people exist in such a place or better yet how do imperfect people still exist in a perfect world?

Maybe imperfect people still exist in an imperfect world & Christ rules over them to demonstrate to humanity what it would be like to live under a just King, kingdom & God.  Maybe this is the last chapter in Gods attempt to reach humanity, verify His Rightouseness and fullfill His final purpose.  Everything that has happened since the fall of man has been a responce to charges brought against God by Satan and this is a great demonstartion of evidance to give witness & testamony to the truth so that the final judgement can be passed and all who exist can know that once & for all God is Just, Truthful & Righteouse.

God stated it is not for man to rule over himself & that he can only do so to his own injury.  God said we need Him to govern over us & lead us.  How do we know that is true, just because He said it?  He want's to demonstrate it & we have thousands of years of our own rule & Satans rule but we don't have Gods rule.  The 1000yr will demonstrate that He told the truth & give the last piece of evidance in order to close this universal judicial hearing on Gods righteousness & bring final judgement against the unrighteous.  That is why there is a second & final war.  That is why there then comes the final judgement and the books of record are then opened & that is why earth & all creation is not set back to perfection untill that takes place.  That is why the bible, Gods Word has set this process as stated by God to take place through prophecy.

We must have Gods Spirit to understand Gods Word & His Will.  He said He would give it to us for that purpose if we ask & seek it.

Got to go for real now, God Bless & Happy Easter! 

Apr 8, 2012 -- 7:03AM, Newtonian wrote:

During the 1,000 years Adamic death will be no more - but there will still be those who die as a result of not learning righteousness - dying as a mere boy though 100  years old - having evil called down upon them.   But this is also the time when the wolf and lamb will feed as one and no one will be allowed to do any harm to anyone (that is the point God will call down fire and destroy any wicked who might think to harm anyone or anything).

(Isaiah 65:20-25) . . .“No more will there come to be a suckling a few days old from that place, neither an old man that does not fulfill his days; for one will die as a mere boy, although a hundred years of age; and as for the sinner, although a hundred years of age he will have evil called down upon him.

Your commentary on these verses are misleading, although I understand the reasons for the inherant dishonesty of WTS corp and its followers, no need to insult  others intelligence or at least access to information:

www.watchtower.org/e/bible/isa/chapter_0...

www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isa...

After reading the same qouted verses from each translation there is nothing sugesting that

death only comes due to sinning, clearly these scriptures are not referring to eternal life in a paradise free of Adamic sin.    Perhaps in the holy City that comes down from heaven, besides if rightous  folks are dying at a 100 yrs  during the 1000 yrs ....whats the point?  Thats not paradise.

As the 'new heavens and new earth' descriptions continue in chapter 66  sacrifices are mentioned, viewing the decaying, maggot ridden bodies of transgressors are described is this paradise under the 1000 yrs??

www.watchtower.org/e/bible/isa/chapter_0...

has said.

22 “For just as the new heavens and the new earth that I am making are standing before me,” is the utterance of Jehovah, “so the offspring of YOU people and the name of YOU people will keep standing.”

23 “And it will certainly occur that from new moon to new moon and from sabbath to sabbath all flesh will come in to bow down before me,” Jehovah has said. 24 “And they will actually go forth and look upon the carcasses of the men that were transgressing against me; for the very worms upon them will not die and their fire itself will not be extinguished, and they must become something repulsive to all flesh.”

What is the JW definition of "wicked"?

Apr 8, 2012 -- 5:28AM, Newtonian wrote:

Ed - OK, I read the whole thread.   Of course, you missed details in Ezekiel as well as cross references. 

Well, as I was telling Regina...that's the whole point of the thread. And it wasn't for me to have metioned every little detail in Ezekiel as well as cross references...but for others to add in their knowledge about the subject to the thread...in order to provide a discussion. 

Apr 8, 2012 -- 5:28AM, Newtonian wrote:

For example, you missed the special punishment at Armageddon for those who actually fight against God's people - the flesh eating plague at Armageddon - though we do not know if this will be fulfilled literally or not [up to Jesus and Jehovah, of course):

(Zechariah 14:12, 13) . . .“And this is what will prove to be the scourge with which Jehovah will scourge all the peoples that will actually do military service against Jerusalem: There will be a rotting away of one’s flesh, while one is standing upon one’s feet; and one’s very eyes will rot away in their sockets, and one’s very tongue will rot away in one’s mouth. ¹³ “And it must occur in that day [that] confusion from Jehovah will become widespread among them; and they will actually grab hold, each one of the hand of his companion, and his hand will actually come up against the hand of his companion.

Oh, I see.

Apr 8, 2012 -- 5:28AM, Newtonian wrote:

And, of course, you missed the increased emphasis Jehovah's Witnesses have on the good news of God's Kingdom (we only rarely reference the flesh eating plague) as a result of our love for our neighbor and our sharing God's desire that none be destroyed as per 2 Peter 3:9

(2 Peter 3:9) Jehovah is not slow respecting his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with YOU because he does not desire any to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance.

Thus the good news of God's Kingdom involves the answer to Jesus prayer (Matthew 6:9,10) for God's Kingdom to come - and what it will do when it comes (Daniel 2:44){Armageddon} - e.g. the 1,000 year reign of Christ that immediately follows - see this link for additional details about this good news of God's Kingdom that must be preached before the end comes (Matthew 24:14; Mark 13:10 -

www.watchtower.org/e/bh/article_08.htm

Ed - please see this chapter and the Scriptures cited - it is good news!

Sorry, Newtonian, but I think that you are veering off the topic with the above. Also, your quote above sounds more like JW propaganda, then it does anything else.

But please, let's stick to the subject.

Hey Ed2

This is a good post, and it is interesting the different views on this subject. But as most here will know, people have been talking about Armageddon and the end of the world for the last 2000 years, nearly every generation has had there hard liners preaching the end and setting dates and miserably failing. The one difference between them generations and ours, is Israel, Israel is Gods prophetic time peace, all the other generations have had floods, earthquakes and wars, but there was no Israel back in there own land, today we have more earthquakes recorded in the last 15 years than in the whole of recorded history, we have had floods and we have had so many wars including two world wars that have killed millions, we have many wars going on at this very minute, and more importantly we have a literal Israel in its own land that God gave them with Jerusalem as there capital speaking there original language using there original currency.

As for the beast described in Revelations 17:16, well first i would not use the NWT it has added "wild beast" for some reason when every translation bar none says "beast", but if we are to understand this beast or more to the point what it refers to, we need only go to back a few verses and it will explain the meaning of the beast. If we look at this verse Rev 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

The seven heads are the seven hills of Rome, when we read all these different end time prophets, we have to understand the symbolism they use, we read in Daniel about an image that represents empires that are mostly historical today but the last empire is a future empire which is also the revived Roman empire, this is described as the ten toes of Iron and clay, it sits on seven hills(Rome) and the ten crowns represent ten kingdoms or countries that were ruled by the Romans, these are European countries, and i believe that the last empire that will be ruled by the Anti Christ will be the EU, the revived Roman Empire, The EU are trying very hard to become the united states of Europe, according to prophesy there will be three countries ripped out of it.  

The Anti Christ is a future world leader who makes a peace treaty with Israel and its neighbours, it allows them to have there sacrifice in there temple and he will work with the religion for three and a half years then he will destroy all religion and start his own which means every one worships him and will have to have a mark on there right hand or fore head, the whore of Babylon will be the Roman catholic church.He(Anti Christ) will take his army to magido and war against many armies but God comes back and destroys them all.

The fact is there are many different interpretations out there, there is not many that go along with the Biblical interpretation, absolutely no interpretation that spiritualises Israel can be correct, it can only work with a literal Israel, there is a lot more to it than what i have tried to explain, but i believe what i have shown is Biblical.

God Bless You

Denis.