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Switch to Forum Live View Jesus- Jew or Christian?
2 years ago  ::  Apr 06, 2012 - 4:03PM #1
JaneB
Posts: 11
I have a question for Jews and Christians :

Would you define Jesus as a Jew or a Christian? 

I really want to know whether Jews would hesitate to acknowledge him as a Jew and whether Christians would find it difficult (problematic) to think so.
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 06, 2012 - 5:19PM #2
ffb
Posts: 2,120

I one is to accept his historical existence and base any definition of his religious background on the gospel accounts, then one would conclude that, due to his matrilineal connection to Judaism, he was Jewish.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 06, 2012 - 5:50PM #3
JaneB
Posts: 11

Apr 6, 2012 -- 5:19PM, ffb wrote:

I one is to accept his historical existence and base any definition of his religious background on the gospel accounts, then one would conclude that, due to his matrilineal connection to Judaism, he was Jewish.


A Jew to be proud of or to dismiss?


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2 years ago  ::  Apr 06, 2012 - 6:48PM #4
ffb
Posts: 2,120

Apr 6, 2012 -- 5:50PM, JaneB wrote:

Apr 6, 2012 -- 5:19PM, ffb wrote:

I one is to accept his historical existence and base any definition of his religious background on the gospel accounts, then one would conclude that, due to his matrilineal connection to Judaism, he was Jewish.


A Jew to be proud of or to dismiss?



A jew who was no more important than any other. If he actually encouraged his followers to abandon particular laws then I'd say that I'm not particularly proud of him. Otherwise, I don't really think of him.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 06, 2012 - 6:53PM #5
JaneB
Posts: 11

Apr 6, 2012 -- 6:48PM, ffb wrote:

Apr 6, 2012 -- 5:50PM, JaneB wrote:

Apr 6, 2012 -- 5:19PM, ffb wrote:

I one is to accept his historical existence and base any definition of his religious background on the gospel accounts, then one would conclude that, due to his matrilineal connection to Judaism, he was Jewish.


A Jew to be proud of or to dismiss?



A jew who was no more important than any other. If he actually encouraged his followers to abandon particular laws then I'd say that I'm not particularly proud of him. Otherwise, I don't really think of him.


thanks for your answer!



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2 years ago  ::  Apr 06, 2012 - 7:15PM #6
Pam34
Posts: 2,649

If there were no Christian religion (which persists in bringing him up), Jesus would be unknown to us at all. And it's quite true that we essentially never think about him, unless and until somebody brings him up in conversation.



To me, he's a non-issue, basically. If what the synoptic gospels have him saying is accurate, he was traveling around preaching fairly basic late Second Temple period Pharisaic Judaism. Nothing particularly special or unique. Even the 'heal the sick' and 'miracle worker' material is fairly standard for that time and place. Again, nothing all that special.



 Word of being raised from the dead (whether by God or by his own bootstraps) wouldn't be especially notable in some circles, since that was supposed to be a sign of the immanent end of time and judgment day, and Jesus and his followers even through Paul and the early Christian movement, clearly thought the world was very near the end of time. Since we are now around 2000 years after that, they were clearly wrong.



Blessed are You, HaShem, Who blesses the years.
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 08, 2012 - 12:06AM #7
Bunsinspace
Posts: 5,900

Apr 6, 2012 -- 4:03PM, JaneB wrote:

I have a question for Jews and Christians :

Would you define Jesus as a Jew or a Christian? 



BS"D


It appears that Jesus is neither.  Jesus cannot be a Christian because Christians as a people do things he commanded them not to do so he cannot be accounted as one of them.  Jesus cannot be a Jew because he is worshipped as a god by Christians and that is forbidden to any Jew.  Surprised

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 08, 2012 - 2:22AM #8
Pam34
Posts: 2,649

Apr 8, 2012 -- 12:06AM, Bunsinspace wrote:


Apr 6, 2012 -- 4:03PM, JaneB wrote:

I have a question for Jews and Christians :

Would you define Jesus as a Jew or a Christian? 



BS"D


It appears that Jesus is neither.  Jesus cannot be a Christian because Christians as a people do things he commanded them not to do so he cannot be accounted as one of them.  Jesus cannot be a Jew because he is worshipped as a god by Christians and that is forbidden to any Jew.  Surprised





Well, that's hardly HIS fault. I wouldn't read him out of the Tribe for something the non-Jews did.




Blessed are You, HaShem, Who blesses the years.
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 08, 2012 - 3:31AM #9
JaneB
Posts: 11

Apr 8, 2012 -- 12:06AM, Bunsinspace wrote:


Apr 6, 2012 -- 4:03PM, JaneB wrote:

I have a question for Jews and Christians :

Would you define Jesus as a Jew or a Christian? 



BS"D


It appears that Jesus is neither.  Jesus cannot be a Christian because Christians as a people do things he commanded them not to do so he cannot be accounted as one of them.  Jesus cannot be a Jew because he is worshipped as a god by Christians and that is forbidden to any Jew.  Surprised





Hi,I like your answer a lot. I havent thought about it this way. But I think that if Jews dont accept his divinity then they have no obstacles to say "he is one of us"... However, modern categories of being Jewish or Christian dont apply here. Your comment is right that he would probably wonder about modern "followers of Christ" :-) 

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 08, 2012 - 1:14PM #10
Bunsinspace
Posts: 5,900

Apr 8, 2012 -- 2:22AM, Pam34 wrote:


Well, that's hardly HIS fault. I wouldn't read him out of the Tribe for something the non-Jews did.





BS"D


I don't know about this one.  The Christian holy text attributes his equation of divinity to his own words.  Nevertheless, had he actually existed and been a Jew you would have thought there would have been a surviving remnant of Jews who would stick up for him to this day.  But the historical facts are the church of Jerusalem was basically wiped out in favor of the Roman church and that is what Christianity is.  And that is decidedly non-Jewish.  Nothing wrong with that.  Just it precludes him from being claimed as a Jew.  And those Jews who stick up for him as a Jew today are not remnants of the first followers, but Jews converted to Christianity by the descendents of the Roman church.  (I am excepting, of course, the scholarly sell-outs who bolster such claims to assure their own income from publishing their works among the Christians which I think is dishonest and unethical.)


P.S. Please nobody should get the impression that I am attacking Christianity.  I am only taking the position that it is non-Jewish.  Christianity is as valid as any other religion.

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