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2 years ago  ::  Apr 11, 2012 - 1:35PM #21
nieciedo
Posts: 5,617

Apr 11, 2012 -- 11:35AM, Dudette wrote:


Thank you ffb!


As I was reading your post, the idea that some Jews feel the need to come back to Israel.  Can you tell me what this "movement" is called?




Zionism

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 11, 2012 - 4:08PM #22
ffb
Posts: 2,174

Apr 11, 2012 -- 11:35AM, Dudette wrote:

Thank you ffb!


As I was reading your post, the idea that some Jews feel the need to come back to Israel.  Can you tell me what this "movement" is called?


that's a complex question -- you might be referring to the political or religious idea of Zionism, but that is more the urge for the people to have a national homeland. The personal drive to make Aliyah (emigration to Israel) is on the individual as is the sense that there is a commandment to fulfill "yishuv ha'aretz" -- settling the land of Israel.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 11, 2012 - 9:57PM #23
Pam34
Posts: 2,650

Jews in the more liberal branches of Judaism are more comfortable with different ways of interpreting halakhah (and scripture too) than people who are more likely to be comfortable in a stricter setting - but Judaism encourages questioning and debate to a level unusual in Christian settings. I think it's because Christianity stresses a level of 'thought' belief (mental assent) as a faith determinant while Judaism stresses behavioral compliance more than agreement with doctrinal ideas.



And those particular ultra's in Mea Shearim were totally out of line and definitely a minority within a minority. Its more than time that the official rabbinate started reining guys like that in - which many in the ultra orthodox community have already stepped up and made clear.



Blessed are You, HaShem, Who blesses the years.
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 12, 2012 - 9:26AM #24
Dudette
Posts: 137

Hi ffb!


Aliyah...that's the word.  I was watching the show "The Naked Archaeologist" and he talked about this.  I found it quite admirable!

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 12, 2012 - 9:29AM #25
Dudette
Posts: 137

Hi Pam!


You write:


Judaism encourages questioning and debate to a level unusual in Christian settings. I think it's because Christianity stresses a level of 'thought' belief (mental assent) as a faith determinant while Judaism stresses behavioral compliance more than agreement with doctrinal ideas.


This is one of the many things I enjoy about Judaism!

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 13, 2012 - 3:08PM #26
vra
Posts: 6,403

I think we can sometimes get so concerned with looking at and labeling trees, we may forget to take a step back and take an overview of the forest.  What is the purpose of Torah as a whole? 


Many of our sages felt that it was given to us in order to make a more compassionate and just (as in "justice") people and, eventually, world.  To me, that's what I think it's mostly about, but that doesn't mean that every item of the Law deals just with those two items. 


Shabbat shalom

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 13, 2012 - 3:46PM #27
nieciedo
Posts: 5,617

Apr 12, 2012 -- 9:29AM, Dudette wrote:


Hi Pam!


You write:


Judaism encourages questioning and debate to a level unusual in Christian settings. I think it's because Christianity stresses a level of 'thought' belief (mental assent) as a faith determinant while Judaism stresses behavioral compliance more than agreement with doctrinal ideas.


This is one of the many things I enjoy about Judaism!




Why? Why does this strike you as a good thing?


I think that if you're going to argue and disagree and split into rival camps over something, ideas are a lot more worthwhile than idiotic questions of what you can and can't eat or what you are and are not allowed to do on Saturday.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 13, 2012 - 3:48PM #28
nieciedo
Posts: 5,617

Apr 13, 2012 -- 3:08PM, vra wrote:


I think we can sometimes get so concerned with looking at and labeling trees, we may forget to take a step back and take an overview of the forest.  What is the purpose of Torah as a whole? 


Many of our sages felt that it was given to us in order to make a more compassionate and just (as in "justice") people and, eventually, world.  To me, that's what I think it's mostly about, but that doesn't mean that every item of the Law deals just with those two items. 


Shabbat shalom




If the Torah was designed to make people and the world better, then there wouldn't be so much pointless obsession over food and weekend plans.


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2 years ago  ::  Apr 13, 2012 - 5:10PM #29
Shusha
Posts: 4,510

Apr 13, 2012 -- 3:46PM, nieciedo wrote:


Apr 12, 2012 -- 9:29AM, Dudette wrote:


Hi Pam!


You write:


Judaism encourages questioning and debate to a level unusual in Christian settings. I think it's because Christianity stresses a level of 'thought' belief (mental assent) as a faith determinant while Judaism stresses behavioral compliance more than agreement with doctrinal ideas.


This is one of the many things I enjoy about Judaism!




Why? Why does this strike you as a good thing?


I think that if you're going to argue and disagree and split into rival camps over something, ideas are a lot more worthwhile than idiotic questions of what you can and can't eat or what you are and are not allowed to do on Saturday.





Um, I am just a beginner here, but isn't compliance with the required behaviour supposed to elevate you so the ideas can come to the forefront?  Isn't that the purpose of Shabbat:  to put aside mundane things and give you the time and space to allow yourself to be elevated?

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 13, 2012 - 5:18PM #30
Pam34
Posts: 2,650

Ideally - but that requires that you put a little distance between yourself and the 'minutiae of required/forbidden observance'. Some people get lost in the forest and can't see anything but the leaves, figuratively speaking.



Or rather, they mistake the means of observance, for the END of observance.

Blessed are You, HaShem, Who blesses the years.
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