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3 years ago  ::  Apr 05, 2012 - 1:24AM #1
Blü
Posts: 25,062
The Catholic Encyclopedia tells me -

The Trinity is the term employed to signify the central doctrine of the Christian religion — the truth that in the unity of the Godhead there are Three Persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, these Three Persons being truly distinct one from another.

Part of the exposition that follows translates as -

it's termed a 'mystery'
because human reason can't derive it
so it can only be known through revelation
and reason can make no cogent demonstration of it after it's revealed.

Is that not just a pretty way of admitting that the notion founders on the rock of reason?  That the whole thing's a total nonsense?
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 05, 2012 - 7:24AM #2
Adelphe
Posts: 28,736

Apr 5, 2012 -- 1:24AM, Blü wrote:

The Catholic Encyclopedia tells me -

The Trinity is the term employed to signify the central doctrine of the Christian religion — the truth that in the unity of the Godhead there are Three Persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, these Three Persons being truly distinct one from another.

Part of the exposition that follows translates as -

it's termed a 'mystery'
because human reason can't derive it
so it can only be known through revelation



That's what "mystery" means in Christianity.  Not that "gee, we just don't know how it's so--it's a mystery" but that "it's revealed"--a "top down" approach rather than "bottom up."



and reason can make no cogent demonstration of it after it's revealed.



Um...


Now I find that hard to believe coming from a Christian encyclopedia...


I s'pose the key to this statement is your prior "part of the exposition that follows translates as"...


Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason, my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and I will not retract anything, for to go against conscience would be neither right nor safe.  Here I stand.  I can do no other.  God help me.  Amen.
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 05, 2012 - 8:02AM #3
koolpoi
Posts: 6,518

Apr 5, 2012 -- 1:24AM, Blü wrote:

The Catholic Encyclopedia tells me -

The Trinity is the term employed to signify the central doctrine of the Christian religion — the truth that in the unity of the Godhead there are Three Persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, these Three Persons being truly distinct one from another.

Part of the exposition that follows translates as -

it's termed a 'mystery'
because human reason can't derive it
so it can only be known through revelation
and reason can make no cogent demonstration of it after it's revealed.

Is that not just a pretty way of admitting that the notion founders on the rock of reason?  That the whole thing's a total nonsense?



Maybe after many centuries of trying to make sense of the Trinity by reason,the RCC has the intellectual integrity to simply admit it is a mystery.

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 05, 2012 - 8:18AM #4
jlb32168
Posts: 13,392

Apr 5, 2012 -- 1:24AM, Blü wrote:

Is that not just a pretty way of admitting that the notion founders on the rock of reason? That the whole thing's a total nonsense?


It seems to me that you've formed a hypothesis and then set out to prove the hypothesis was true.  I don't suppose I'll try and convince you since I'm not too sure that you bother to let evidence contrary to your opinion inform that opinion. 


In any case, "Mystery" means that something is divinely revealed – just as Mme. Adelphe said – and the mystery of the Trinity no more founders on the rock of reason than the mystery that matter can be neither created nor destroyed and yet the singularity from which we get the “Big Bang” originated somewhere – possibly when two “branes” collided with each other producing that singularity.  Virgins having babies requires no less imagination, IMO. 

Victim of this, victim of that, your mama’s too thin and your daddy’s too fat, get over it! - the Eagles
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 05, 2012 - 8:38AM #5
Ed.W
Posts: 9,442

What the hell is the 'rock of reason'?  Reason/Reasoning is reason but rock of reason??  Jesus is the only "Rock" I know of....


Maybe you should say, "rock of Reason".


But at least we are getting somewhere now.  Your faith is Atheism.  And the reason you attack what you have no knowledge of, is because if you stay quiet too long someone might ask you to prove there is no God. 



But the Trinity is an entirely "reasonable" doctrine.  In fact, a non-trinity would be unreasonable.


‘Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage.’ --Lao Tzu
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 05, 2012 - 10:08AM #6
Blü
Posts: 25,062

Koolpoi


Maybe after many centuries of trying to make sense of the Trinity by reason,the RCC has the intellectual integrity to simply admit it is a mystery.


Here I'm trying to understand the difference between a mystery and a nonsense.

None indicated so far.

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 05, 2012 - 10:08AM #7
Blü
Posts: 25,062

jlb

Thanks for your comment.

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 05, 2012 - 10:16AM #8
Ed.W
Posts: 9,442

Apr 5, 2012 -- 10:08AM, Blü wrote:



Here I'm trying to understand the difference between a mystery and a nonsense.




All you had to do was click on the word "mystery" and it would have defined it for you:



This term signifies in general that which is unknowable, or valuable knowledge that is kept secret. In pagan antiquity the word mystery was used to designate certain esoteric doctrines, such as Pythagoreanism, or certain ceremonies that were performed in private or whose meaning was known only to the initiated, e.g., the Eleusinian rites, Phallic worship. In the language of the early Christians the mysteries were those religious teachings that were carefully guarded from the knowledge of the profane.

‘Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage.’ --Lao Tzu
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 05, 2012 - 10:21AM #9
Blü
Posts: 25,062

Ed


What the hell is the 'rock of reason'?


It's a metaphor.  My fault - I should have made it clear for you by writing [metaphor] rock of reason [/metaphor].  I trust you got the part about total nonsense.


But the Trinity is an entirely "reasonable" doctrine.  In fact, a non-trinity would be unreasonable.


Well, that's the point.  The Catholic Encyclopedia says you're wrong - see the OP quotes.

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 05, 2012 - 10:22AM #10
Blü
Posts: 25,062

Ed


I know the difference between a mystery and a nonsense in normal parlance.


I simply can't see a difference in this instance.

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