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Switch to Forum Live View ATHEISM 2.O. WHAT ATHEISM CAN LEARN FROM RELIGION
3 years ago  ::  Apr 03, 2012 - 9:46PM #11
teilhard
Posts: 51,341

I understand that (the Late) Madelyn Murray O'Hair had some "Kind" of Scams going ...


Apr 3, 2012 -- 8:25PM, wohali wrote:


Atheists can learn how to effectively scam people.





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3 years ago  ::  Apr 03, 2012 - 9:55PM #12
cptspith
Posts: 2,363

Apr 3, 2012 -- 5:58PM, teilhard wrote:


One Thing "Atheists" (rather than from "Athe-ISM") could learn from People of Religious Faith (rather than from "Religion") is that there is great Variation and multiple Possibilities among us, i.e. we're NOT all Rigid, Dogmatic, Ir-Rational, Delusional, Authoritarian, anti-Scientific or ANY of the terrible Things unfairly said/written about us ...




That's a very astute and ironic point, coming from one who consistently paints all atheists with the same broad, ignorant brush....

Reverend Spith
Savior of Humanity
Secular Messiah

Do not assume that which you seek to discover.
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 03, 2012 - 11:17PM #13
teilhard
Posts: 51,341

Actually ... not true ...


A couple of my good personal Friends are Atheists, and one of them is in Fact a professional Colleague with whom I have worked on a numbr of Educational-Scientific Projects for ca. 25 Years ... I DO understand that Atheists are individual unique Persons -- not "Clones" of some ArcheType ...


Apr 3, 2012 -- 9:55PM, cptspith wrote:


Apr 3, 2012 -- 5:58PM, teilhard wrote:


One Thing "Atheists" (rather than from "Athe-ISM") could learn from People of Religious Faith (rather than from "Religion") is that there is great Variation and multiple Possibilities among us, i.e. we're NOT all Rigid, Dogmatic, Ir-Rational, Delusional, Authoritarian, anti-Scientific or ANY of the terrible Things unfairly said/written about us ...




That's a very astute and ironic point, coming from one who consistently paints all atheists with the same broad, ignorant brush....





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3 years ago  ::  Apr 04, 2012 - 1:23AM #14
cptspith
Posts: 2,363

Apr 3, 2012 -- 9:55PM, cptspith wrote:


That's a very astute and ironic point, coming from one who consistently paints all atheists with the same broad, ignorant brush....


Apr 3, 2012 -- 11:17PM, teilhard wrote:


Actually ... not true ...


A couple of my good personal Friends are Atheists, and one of them is in Fact a professional Colleague with whom I have worked on a numbr of Educational-Scientific Projects for ca. 25 Years ... I DO understand that Atheists are individual unique Persons -- not "Clones" of some ArcheType ...






Yet you quite effectively hide that "understanding" in nearly every single post you make on this discussion board.

Reverend Spith
Savior of Humanity
Secular Messiah

Do not assume that which you seek to discover.
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 04, 2012 - 9:19AM #15
IDBC
Posts: 4,556

 


Howdy Teil


 


Apr 3, 2012 -- 11:17PM, teilhard wrote:


Actually ... not true ...


A couple of my good personal Friends are Atheists, and one of them is in Fact a professional Colleague with whom I have worked on a numbr of Educational-Scientific Projects for ca. 25 Years ... I DO understand that Atheists are individual unique Persons -- not "Clones" of some ArcheType ...



Do you also understand that some of good personal friends who are atheists are moral and compassionate human beings? 


Do you also understand that they are moral human beings that have compassion even though they do not believe in god/gods? 


I have friends and relative who do believe in god/gods, who are religious, who do have faith, and who are not  "monsters".  


I also understand that all human beings are unique individuals.


It would therefore seem apparent that being able to understand that all human beings are unique indiviuals have nothing to do with wether or not you believe in the existence of god/gods, follow the doctrine and dogmas of a religion or don't have religous faith or don't. 


According to your profile you are a Roman Catholic. 


It is my understanding the Pope is respected as a moral shepard for the moral guidance of his flock. 


It is my understanding that His Holiness has a problem with atheist and atheism.  It is my understanding that while he has not condemned indiviual atheist and has not called "all" atheists "monsters"  he has condemned and does believe that atheists as a group are the cause of many if not all of the immorality that exists on the planet.  


 


 


 


 


Apr 3, 2012 -- 9:55PM, cptspith wrote:


Apr 3, 2012 -- 5:58PM, teilhard wrote:


One Thing "Atheists" (rather than from "Athe-ISM") could learn from People of Religious Faith (rather than from "Religion") is that there is great Variation and multiple Possibilities among us, i.e. we're NOT all Rigid, Dogmatic, Ir-Rational, Delusional, Authoritarian, anti-Scientific or ANY of the terrible Things unfairly said/written about us ...




 What is clear is that all people of religious faith are dogmatic.  If you are a Christian you must have faith, you must believe in the dogma that Jesus Christ was the Son of God.  You must believe that he was sent as a sacrfice to redeem all human beings for the sins committed by Adam and Eve and the sins that their decendants committ.  If you are a Christian you must believe in the dogma that Jesus Christ was crucificed, died and was buried and arose from the dead.  You must have faith in the dogma that the crucifiction of Jesus is an historical fact.


If you do not believe in those dogmas then you cannot be considered to be a Christian.


If you are a Muslim you must believe that Muhammad was the Final Prophet of Allah.  That he recieved  divine revelations from god.  You must believe that Jesus was NOT crucified and was NOT in any way divine.  You must have faith in the religious dogma derived from the Quran that it is NOT a historical fact that Isa bin Mariam was crucified.  That it only "appeared" that Isa bin Mariam was crucifed.  


If you do NOT have faith in those dogmas then you cannot be a Muslim. 


The Roman Catholic Church does have its own set of doctrines and dogmas that a Roman Catholic must believe in order to be considered a Roman Catholic by Roman Catholic authorities. 


Other so-called christians  do not have faith in the truth of Roman Catholic dogmas and doctrtines.  They have their own set of unique and individual doctrines and dogmas.  


It is clear to me that different believers in monotheism have a different set of doctrines and dogmas that are part of their religious practice.  It is clear to me that these difference have caused...problems not only between the different religions but also between the same religions. 


The only doctrine and dogma that atheists have is a non-believe in the existence of god/gods.  It avoids the...conflicts that are derived from a belief in the existence of god/gods.  


What both Nazis and Communist did learn from Christans and Muslims is the belief in "absolute" moral authority.  "Absolute" moral authority does avoid the "slippery slope" of relative and situational morality.   The fact is that not "all" atheists were communists or nazis.   The fact is that some communists and nazis were christians and some were not christians.  Of course you could make the claim that those christians who were and are communists or nazis are not "true" christians.  Just as Muslims claim that Osma bin Laden and other human beings are not "true" Muslims.   


 


 




 


 

HAVE A THINKING DAY MAY REASON GUIDE YOU
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 04, 2012 - 9:51AM #16
teilhard
Posts: 51,341

I think I'll just stick with my reasonable Observations and Experiences ...


Apr 4, 2012 -- 1:23AM, cptspith wrote:


Apr 3, 2012 -- 9:55PM, cptspith wrote:


That's a very astute and ironic point, coming from one who consistently paints all atheists with the same broad, ignorant brush....


Apr 3, 2012 -- 11:17PM, teilhard wrote:


Actually ... not true ...


A couple of my good personal Friends are Atheists, and one of them is in Fact a professional Colleague with whom I have worked on a numbr of Educational-Scientific Projects for ca. 25 Years ... I DO understand that Atheists are individual unique Persons -- not "Clones" of some ArcheType ...






Yet you quite effectively hide that "understanding" in nearly every single post you make on this discussion board.





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3 years ago  ::  Apr 04, 2012 - 10:23AM #17
IDBC
Posts: 4,556

 


 



You are probably right that I am wasting my time.   But maybe, just maybe I am not wasting my time.   He is after all a human being with intelligence.  He does have the potential to change his mind.  


Besides I have enjoy talking to Teil and other people like him.   I do not expect him to change his mind.   I may hope that he does, but then I think he may have the hope he can change my mind. 


Also taking with Teil and others like him helps me to understand and question my own beliefs. 


So it is not a total waste of time. 

Moderated by Jcarlinbn on Apr 04, 2012 - 08:18PM
HAVE A THINKING DAY MAY REASON GUIDE YOU
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 04, 2012 - 12:04PM #18
teilhard
Posts: 51,341

It has long been my Observation that in these "Discussions" we frequently "talk past each other" because we are not "speaking the same Language" ...


IOW, these conversations are inherently difficult from the get-go ...


Apr 4, 2012 -- 10:23AM, IDBC wrote:


 


 


Besides I have enjoy talking to Teil and other people like him.   I do not expect him to change his mind.   I may hope that he does, but then I think he may have the hope he can change my mind. 


Also taking with Teil and others like him helps me to understand and question my own beliefs. 


So it is not a total waste of time. 





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3 years ago  ::  Apr 04, 2012 - 4:07PM #19
steven_guy
Posts: 11,750

Apr 4, 2012 -- 10:23AM, IDBC wrote:


 


 


Howdy blu


Apr 4, 2012 -- 9:58AM, Blü wrote:


IDBC


You waste your time talking to teilhard.


Instead of intelligent questions, he has a typographic style.


Instead of intelligent answers, he has a typographic style and some stock evasions.


The sooner you don't respond to him, the longer and more fruitful your day will be.




You are probably right that I am wasting my time in taling with Teil.   But maybe, just maybe I am not wasting my time.   He is after all a human being with intelligence.  He does have the potential to change his mind.  


Besides I have enjoy talking to Teil and other people like him.   I do not expect him to change his mind.   I may hope that he does, but then I think he may have the hope he can change my mind. 


Also taking with Teil and others like him helps me to understand and question my own beliefs. 


So it is not a total waste of time. 




If you're into capital letters and pseudo-Haiku, then you're in luck.

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 04, 2012 - 5:38PM #20
wohali
Posts: 10,227

Jim Bakker


Hogen Kukunaga


Kent Hovind


L. Ron Hubbard


Henry Lyons


Barry Minkow


Sun Mung Moon


Aimee Semple McPherson


Marjoe Goitner


Billy James Hargis


Jimmy Swaggart


Peter Popoff


Mike Warnke


Robert Tilton


W. V. Grant


Ted Haggard


Tony Alamo


None of these examples are of a nature of "well, I heard that this person had a scam going".


Not even mentioning all of the Catholic scandals.

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