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1 year ago  ::  Apr 17, 2012 - 5:31AM #211
Miguel_de_servet
Miguel_de_servet
Posts: 16,876

sdp


Apr 14, 2012 -- 11:25AM, stardustpilgrim wrote:

Apr 14, 2012 -- 10:49AM, Miguel_de_servet wrote:

Peraphs reading this article, The observer e ffect (by Massimiliano Sassoli de Bianchi, September 30, 2011, PDF @ arxiv.org), may help you both [sdp and Blü].


I glanced at the article, the pertinent part seems to be: Observation as an Act of Destruction.


Your "glancing" was obviously very selective and biased.


You would have done better to stop and ponder this passage, at the very beginning of the Abstract:


“An entity can be observed with or without a scope. In the second case, the observation is a purely non-invasive discovery process; in the first case, it is a purely invasive process, which can involve either creation or destruction aspects.”


MdS

Revelation is above, not against Reason

“The everlasting God is a refuge, and underneath you are his eternal arms ...” (Deut 33:27)
“Do you have an arm like God, and can you thunder with a voice like his?” (Job 40:9)
“By the Lord’s word [dabar] the heavens were made; and by the breath [ruwach] of his mouth all their host.” (Psalm 33:6)
“Who would have believed what we just heard? When was the arm of the Lord revealed through him?” (Isaiah 53:1)
“Lord, who has believed our message, and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?” (John 12:38)
“For not the hearers of the law are righteous before God, but the doers of the law will be declared righteous.” (Romans 2:13)
“Owe no one anything, except to love one another, for the one who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.”(Romans 13:8)
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 17, 2012 - 6:15AM #212
Blü
Blü
Posts: 21,174

Ed


Someone has to make being stupid have a price


Be careful what you wish for ...
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 17, 2012 - 6:40AM #213
Miguel_de_servet
Miguel_de_servet
Posts: 16,876

LOL!

Revelation is above, not against Reason

“The everlasting God is a refuge, and underneath you are his eternal arms ...” (Deut 33:27)
“Do you have an arm like God, and can you thunder with a voice like his?” (Job 40:9)
“By the Lord’s word [dabar] the heavens were made; and by the breath [ruwach] of his mouth all their host.” (Psalm 33:6)
“Who would have believed what we just heard? When was the arm of the Lord revealed through him?” (Isaiah 53:1)
“Lord, who has believed our message, and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?” (John 12:38)
“For not the hearers of the law are righteous before God, but the doers of the law will be declared righteous.” (Romans 2:13)
“Owe no one anything, except to love one another, for the one who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.”(Romans 13:8)
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 18, 2012 - 6:27PM #214
Faustus5
Faustus5
Posts: 1,930

Apr 16, 2012 -- 8:28PM, Ed.W wrote:

Ironically, it was late scientific discoveries that convinced Flew of Intelligent Design.


No, it was Flew being extremely naive about science and being bamboozled by some religious nuts that changed his mind. There are no, repeat NO legitimate "late scientific discoveries" that support intelligent design.
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 19, 2012 - 1:32AM #215
Rgurley4
Rgurley4
Posts: 3,884

The theory of intelligent design is simply an effort to empirically detect whether the "apparent design" in nature acknowledged by virtually all biologists is genuine design (the product of an intelligent cause) or is simply the product of an undirected process such as natural selection acting on random variations. Creationism typically starts with a religious text and tries to see how the findings of science can be reconciled to it. Intelligent design starts with the empirical evidence of nature and seeks to ascertain what inferences can be drawn from that evidence. Unlike creationism, the scientific theory of intelligent design does not claim that modern biology can identify whether the intelligent cause detected through science is supernatural.


Honest critics of intelligent design acknowledge the difference between intelligent design and creationism. University of Wisconsin historian of science Ronald Numbers is critical of intelligent design, yet according to the Associated Press, he "agrees the creationist label is inaccurate when it comes to the ID [intelligent design] movement." Why, then, do some Darwinists keep trying to conflate intelligent design with creationism? According to Dr. Numbers, it is because they think such claims are "the easiest way to discredit intelligent design." In other words, the charge that intelligent design is "creationism" is a rhetorical strategy on the part of Darwinists who wish to delegitimize design theory without actually addressing the merits of its case


www.intelligentdesign.org/whatisid.php


 
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 19, 2012 - 2:03AM #216
Rgurley4
Rgurley4
Posts: 3,884


Spirituality (SPIRITUAL relationship with God)


VERSUS


(Some Humanistic opposition to Christ-following believers) in the Scientific World


aka


The Spiritual Realm: BELIEF / FAITH


RECONCILED with


The natural world observed by Man: proven scientific theory


Romans 1: 18-23...Paul: Unbelief in God as Creator and Its Consequences
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the TRUTH in unrighteousness,
because that which is known about God is EVIDENT within them;
for God made it evident to them.
For since the creation of the world (cosmos)
His invisible attributes, His eternal power and Divine Nature,
have been clearly SEEN, being UNDERSTOOD through what has been made, (creation) 
so that they are without excuse.
For even though they knew God (existed),
they did not honor Him as God or give thanks,
but they became futile in their SPECULATIONS,
and their foolish heart was darkened.
Professing to be wise, they became fools,
and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God
for an image in the form of corruptible man and
of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 19, 2012 - 3:31AM #217
Blü
Blü
Posts: 21,174

Rgurley


Unlike creationism, the scientific theory of intelligent design does not claim that modern biology can identify whether the intelligent cause detected through science is supernatural.


Utter rubbish.  There is no scientific theory of intelligent design.


There is no definition of 'supernatural being' satisfactory both to theology and to reasoned enquiry, with the result that no objective test will tell us whether any candidate is a supernatural being or not.  This means those who assert the objective existence of supernatural beings have no clear idea what they might mean by their claim.


Further, no examinable evidence suggests, let alone demonstrates, that supernatural beings (as described by various theological concepts) or magic (the power to alter reality independently of the rules of physics, in particular by wishing) have objective existence.


If they don't have objective existence then the only thing they can be is imaginary.


The notion of an 'intelligent designer' can't be scientific, since it attributes aspects of reality (which it can't specify) to magic performed by one or more supernatural beings.


Nor could magic have any power to explain how events occur in reality unless it were accompanied by a description satisfactory to science of how magic actually works to alter reality.
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 19, 2012 - 4:04AM #218
Rgurley4
Rgurley4
Posts: 3,884

Your last post: utterly opinionated without support of authority.
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 19, 2012 - 7:22AM #219
Blü
Blü
Posts: 21,174

Rgurley


Your last post: utterly opinionated without support of authority.


That's easily settled.


Just cite one modern physics paper in a reputable peer-reviewed journal of science that seriously entains any notion of supernatural beings and their magic, and I'll pubicly eat my hat.


If not, you can eat yours.
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 19, 2012 - 9:53AM #220
dio
dio
Posts: 3,053

I bet you could find some papers by scienticts who believe the elements of life, poetically speaking, could have fallen to earth out of the heavens. There are some who think the elements of live may have come  to earth via comet. But really just because a scientist says so doesn't necessailily make it true either.  
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