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Switch to Forum Live View Buddhist similarities with Christianity
3 years ago  ::  Apr 20, 2012 - 7:09AM #61
Kartari
Posts: 2,174

Seraphim,


Apr 18, 2012 -- 5:34PM, SeraphimR wrote:

Both Buddhists and Christians engage in monasticism, and in much the same way.  The monastic communities of both are segregated by sex, are expected to be chaste and embrace poverty.  Monastic practices of both are quite similar, silence, dietary restrictions, many hours devoted to spiritual practices.


Both started as eremtic, i.e. solitary ascetics and only later became cenobitic, i.e. organized into permanent communities.


Monasticism is not universal among religions, though.  Islam and Judaism do not do monasticism, for instance.



This is all true, though I am not familiar enough with Islam and Judaism to confirm or deny your last paragraph offhand.  I am aware that Sufism and Kabbalah are mystical traditions within these two.  However, there is a basic philosophical dissimilarity between Christian and Buddhist monks, which I have touched upon in my previous posts.  I do not believe that the fundamental processes and practices of each religions' monastics are more similar than dissimilar, despite some definite similarities, they each appear to be pursuing very different goals.

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 20, 2012 - 7:29AM #62
Kartari
Posts: 2,174

dio,


Apr 17, 2012 -- 7:13PM, dio wrote:

What does the performance of what is skillful mean, can you expand? And agreed what I know of Christianity infers cleansing but doesn't say much on the nuts and bolts of doing it.  


There is  Jewish tradition Jesus used called hedging, where he says before killing your neighbor don't be angry at him.



That has been my impression of Christianity in general as well.  As to what is meant by being skillful, this article elaborates on some specifics which you might enjoy reading.  In general, my own understanding of skillfulness is of the pertinence of any action towards the cessation of suffering.  The more efficient towards this goal, the more skillful the act.  I would say that cultivating mindfulness, and employing compassion and wisdom, are foundational to skillful action.  It all begins with the mind.  Behavior will follow in its wake.


The Jewish story you mention reminds me of a samurai story, which I now recount off the top of my head.  A samurai spent many, many years tracking down a murderer.  His task was to kill the murderer, this was the justice the law deemed for him.  The samurai finally caught up with the murderer, but as the samurai was about to strike him down with his sword, the murderer spit into the samurai's face.  He paused, sheathed his sword, and walked away, without killing the murderer, letting him go.  He did this because, in that moment he was spat at, the samurai got angry, and his code forbade him from killing in anger.

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 20, 2012 - 2:04PM #63
mainecaptain
Posts: 21,790

Apr 1, 2012 -- 11:07PM, Aka_me wrote:


probably deserves it's own thread to focus ONLY on things Buddhism has in common with Christianity...


The teachings of the Buddha display certain similarities to Christian moral precepts of more than five centuries later: the sanctity of life, compassion for others, rejection of violence, confession and emphasis on charity and the practice of virtue.



1. the sanctity of life


2. compassion for others


3. rejection of violence


4. emphasis on charity


5. the practice of virtue


if these things are not shared, then which one does not profess them?




Why do you want Buddhism to have things in common with Christianity?


And as far as I can see Christianity does not reject violence, Does not respect the sanctity of life, only sometimes has compassion for others, Does do charity, but emphasis I don't know. And what do you mean by Virtue?


Yes some individual Christians have all those things, but Christianity as a whole, I don't know about that. I have seen plenty of evidence to the contrary.


Buddhism may have all these things, but Christianity having them in common, I don't know.

A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. Aristotle
Never discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Plato..
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives" Jackie Robinson
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 21, 2012 - 2:16AM #64
Aka_me
Posts: 12,622

Apr 20, 2012 -- 2:04PM, mainecaptain wrote:


Apr 1, 2012 -- 11:07PM, Aka_me wrote:


probably deserves it's own thread to focus ONLY on things Buddhism has in common with Christianity...


The teachings of the Buddha display certain similarities to Christian moral precepts of more than five centuries later: the sanctity of life, compassion for others, rejection of violence, confession and emphasis on charity and the practice of virtue.



1. the sanctity of life


2. compassion for others


3. rejection of violence


4. emphasis on charity


5. the practice of virtue


if these things are not shared, then which one does not profess them?




Why do you want Buddhism to have things in common with Christianity?


And as far as I can see Christianity does not reject violence, Does not respect the sanctity of life, only sometimes has compassion for others, Does do charity, but emphasis I don't know. And what do you mean by Virtue?


Yes some individual Christians have all those things, but Christianity as a whole, I don't know about that. I have seen plenty of evidence to the contrary.


Buddhism may have all these things, but Christianity having them in common, I don't know.



despite what self proclaimed psychologists who should be collecting money from paying patients rather than dolling out free advice on internet forums would have you believe...


it's not about me. it's not about what I want, or what I think, or what I believe, or how strong my faith is.


it's about discussing reality for what it is.


there are similarities.


and it is TOTALLY delusional to insinuate there aren't any. as reality clearly shows... there is yet to be any substative rebuttal for the similarities.


are you thinking of Christianity, as in "the adherents", or as the teachings of Jesus?


which "just like Buddhism" wasn't penned by the founding prophet, leaving it open to debate for both as to how accurate today's writings are.

the US exports death and corruption globally on a scale undrempt by Iranian authorities. war for corporate profits funded by taxpayers and soldiers' lives plus unofficial war funded by drugs to minorities. wave that flag of corruption in blissful ignorance of the orphans it creates assisting the rich to get richer. it's all good though cause we don't need to do ANYTHING to change... mother nature will create the necessary change.
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 21, 2012 - 10:18AM #65
dio
Posts: 5,208

Apr 20, 2012 -- 7:29AM, Kartari wrote:


dio,


Apr 17, 2012 -- 7:13PM, dio wrote:

What does the performance of what is skillful mean, can you expand? And agreed what I know of Christianity infers cleansing but doesn't say much on the nuts and bolts of doing it.  


There is  Jewish tradition Jesus used called hedging, where he says before killing your neighbor don't be angry at him.



That has been my impression of Christianity in general as well.  As to what is meant by being skillful, this article elaborates on some specifics which you might enjoy reading.  In general, my own understanding of skillfulness is of the pertinence of any action towards the cessation of suffering.  The more efficient towards this goal, the more skillful the act.  I would say that cultivating mindfulness, and employing compassion and wisdom, are foundational to skillful action.  It all begins with the mind.  Behavior will follow in its wake.


The Jewish story you mention reminds me of a samurai story, which I now recount off the top of my head.  A samurai spent many, many years tracking down a murderer.  His task was to kill the murderer, this was the justice the law deemed for him.  The samurai finally caught up with the murderer, but as the samurai was about to strike him down with his sword, the murderer spit into the samurai's face.  He paused, sheathed his sword, and walked away, without killing the murderer, letting him go.  He did this because, in that moment he was spat at, the samurai got angry, and his code forbade him from killing in anger.




how to deal with anger is the issue. It seems his internal code of conduct stopped the Samurai from killing the murderer, which was thou shall not kill in anger. In the Jewish story, it's the Law too which says thou shall not kill or be angry, but  In both cases the samurai and the Jew it is the Law and code of the Samurai which turns both away from killing.


Where does the Law and the code come from? Sombody else, a prophet or higher authority.


Jewish Law came from their prophets, and the Samurai code from Buddha.


I'm not sure what Dharma is. Is it like a code to live by?

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 21, 2012 - 10:43AM #66
SeraphimR
Posts: 10,294

Apr 20, 2012 -- 7:09AM, Kartari wrote:



This is all true, though I am not familiar enough with Islam and Judaism to confirm or deny your last paragraph offhand.  I am aware that Sufism and Kabbalah are mystical traditions within these two.  However, there is a basic philosophical dissimilarity between Christian and Buddhist monks, which I have touched upon in my previous posts.  I do not believe that the fundamental processes and practices of each religions' monastics are more similar than dissimilar, despite some definite similarities, they each appear to be pursuing very different goals.




They may be persuing different philosophical goals, but the techniques are very similar.  And the results to a certain extent are very similar.  I don't think that the results of weight training depend on the philosophies of the practitioners.


“Christians are very close to the Buddhist spirit. I think of the example of monastic life, of the attention and the time it devotes to meditation,” says the Dalai Lama.


It is my contention that the goal of Buddhist monasticism, the cessation of suffering, is a goal of Christianit monasticism, but it is not the final goal of Christianity.  Or not a goal so much as a stage of spiritual Christian development.


Buddhism is all right as far as it goes, it just doesn't go far enough.

People with a mission to save the earth want the earth to seem worse than it is so their mission will look more important.


P.J. O'Rourke
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 21, 2012 - 12:09PM #67
Ferretling
Posts: 254

Christianity is all right as far as it goes; its members just don't know when to leave other people alone.



Seriously, Seraphim, if you're going to make the claim that Buddhism doesn't go far enough, you might want to provide some objective evidence. For Buddhists, it goes plenty far enough, and I have known far more spiritually mature and happy Buddhists than Christians. Considering that I also know far, far, far, far more many Christians than Buddhists, this says a LOT.


In my opinion, the concept of needing a savior is spiritually infantile. But that doesn't really get us anywhere, does it?

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 21, 2012 - 2:13PM #68
mainecaptain
Posts: 21,790

Buddhism requires work, and discipline, Many non Abrahamic systems, theistic and non theistic require some form of work and discipline. Christianity does not. You can be a Christian and do nothing.


Yes, you can go to church every week. But that does not require any more work then getting out of bed and going there.


Yes you can do more, but most people do not. And still consider themselves perfect good Christians. And that is fine. But there is quite a bit that Christianity is not. Like I said in my previous post.

A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. Aristotle
Never discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Plato..
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives" Jackie Robinson
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 21, 2012 - 2:18PM #69
mainecaptain
Posts: 21,790

Apr 21, 2012 -- 12:09PM, Ferretling wrote:


Christianity is all right as far as it goes; its members just don't know when to leave other people alone.



Seriously, Seraphim, if you're going to make the claim that Buddhism doesn't go far enough, you might want to provide some objective evidence. For Buddhists, it goes plenty far enough, and I have known far more spiritually mature and happy Buddhists than Christians. Considering that I also know far, far, far, far more many Christians than Buddhists, this says a LOT.


In my opinion, the concept of needing a savior is spiritually infantile. But that doesn't really get us anywhere, does it?




Bolding mine. It is Spiritually infantile.


And I am always stunned by how people outside a belief system have the audacity to tell another system they don't go far enough. The arrogance is astounding. They need to work on their own planks.

A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. Aristotle
Never discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Plato..
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives" Jackie Robinson
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 21, 2012 - 3:14PM #70
Bob0
Posts: 485

"Buddhism is all right as far as it goes, it just doesn't go far enough"


Yes Buddhism falls short of providing a fictional fabricated final destination such as heaven and Buddhism falls short of offering eternal life. This is what the Buddha taught, long before Christianity was invented"


"Potthapada, it's as if a man at a crossroads were to build a staircase for ascending to a palace, and other people were to say to him, 'Well, my good man, this palace for which you are building a staircase: do you know whether it's east, west, north, or south of here? Whether it's high, low, or in between?' and, when asked this, he would say, 'No.' Then they would say to him, 'So you don't know or see the palace for which you are building a staircase?' When asked this, he would say, 'Yes.'


"So what do you think, Potthapada — when this is the case, don't the words of that man turn out to be unconvincing?"


Potthapada Sutta www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/dn/dn.0...


You keep building that staircase. Just don't ask the Buddhists to blindly climb with you as a matter of faith.


And again it is noted that this entire thread was just a cheap trick to drag Christianity into the Buddhist boards. Why not take these superficial arguments to the Christian boards? I'm sure they would be welcomed warmly.


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