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Switch to Forum Live View The End of Religion?
3 years ago  ::  Mar 25, 2012 - 12:39PM #11
ctcss
Posts: 684

IMO, it is a false choice to state that there is only religion, ignorance, and unkindness on one side, and science, knowledge, and kindness on the other side. It is the approach that one takes to any human endeavor that makes the difference as to the outcome. A shallow, unloving approach towards knowledge or towards one's neighbor is always going to cause problems no matter where such an approach stems from.

I, for one, am hoping that a more thoughtful, studied, and sincere approach to religion becomes more evident in society, rather a complete absence of it, just as I would like to see a more thoughtful, studied, and sincere approach to business, politics, sports, finance, etc. rather than simply eliminating them.

I find Jesus' teachings to be a very important part of how I approach life and I see no reason to abandon them.

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 25, 2012 - 1:09PM #12
JCarlin
Posts: 6,799

Mar 25, 2012 -- 10:19AM, teilhard wrote:

Human Beings are INFAMOUSLY "Pattern-Seeking" Animals ... We don't always AGREE on The Patterns we find ...

Mar 24, 2012 -- 11:55PM, JCarlin wrote:

Which is why religions and those that use them deny a real education to their children  With no understanding of how evolution or anything else in the world works the alternattive of magic is an easy alternative.  Unfortunately magic does not pto see if ay the bills.  Oh, darn maybe we should have taught Johnny to read and think.  



This is why educated rational people tend to subject the patterns we find to rational inquiry to determine if they can be supported by something other than the assertions of authority figures. 


When we find a pattern like religious interference in the public arena to replace science and math with dogma in schools, and "home schooling" when public schools cannot be influenced, we examine these patterns to see if there is a rational basis for them or if they are the result of religious authorities trying to influence secular schools.  Modern societies depend on science and technology for both income and communication so any attempt to weaken children’s ability to acquire the tools of science and technology must be to support the religious authority figures that depend on non-rational beliefs to support their positions.  Therefore the pattern of interference for religious dogma replacing science and technology appears to be real and dysfunctional socially. 




J'Carlin
If the shoe doesn't fit, don't cram your foot in it and complain.
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3 years ago  ::  Mar 25, 2012 - 1:15PM #13
57
Posts: 23,485

Mar 24, 2012 -- 11:55PM, JCarlin wrote:


Mar 24, 2012 -- 11:39PM, jonny42 wrote:

I don't think that many people will ever find "We're here by chance" to be very believable. 


Which is why religions and those that use them deny a real education to their children  With no understanding of how evolution or anything else in the world works the alternattive of magic is an easy alternative.  Unfortunately magic does not pay the bills.  Oh, darn maybe we should have taught Johnny to read and think.  




Evolutionism in its self requires magic.  The bounds of randomness are too steep to overcome. 


Magic mutations are required.  Guided to mutate in the right spot at the right time.  

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 25, 2012 - 1:26PM #14
chevy956
Posts: 1,961

Mar 25, 2012 -- 1:15PM, 57 wrote:

Mar 24, 2012 -- 11:55PM, JCarlin wrote:


Mar 24, 2012 -- 11:39PM, jonny42 wrote:

I don't think that many people will ever find "We're here by chance" to be very believable. 


Which is why religions and those that use them deny a real education to their children  With no understanding of how evolution or anything else in the world works the alternattive of magic is an easy alternative.  Unfortunately magic does not pay the bills.  Oh, darn maybe we should have taught Johnny to read and think.  




Evolutionism in its self requires magic.  The bounds of randomness are too steep to overcome. 


Magic mutations are required.  Guided to mutate in the right spot at the right time.  


Nice to see you share your total ignorance of evolution with atheists. The only problem is that if evolution is incorrect,you would need to falsify the last centuries' worth of genetic and biological research. Also, evolution is observable, unlike your god.


   You are also off topic. This is Discuss Atheism, not Origins of Life

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 25, 2012 - 1:29PM #15
amcolph
Posts: 17,700

Mar 25, 2012 -- 1:15PM, 57 wrote:


Mar 24, 2012 -- 11:55PM, JCarlin wrote:


Mar 24, 2012 -- 11:39PM, jonny42 wrote:

I don't think that many people will ever find "We're here by chance" to be very believable. 


Which is why religions and those that use them deny a real education to their children  With no understanding of how evolution or anything else in the world works the alternattive of magic is an easy alternative.  Unfortunately magic does not pay the bills.  Oh, darn maybe we should have taught Johnny to read and think.  




Evolutionism in its self requires magic.  The bounds of randomness are too steep to overcome. 


Magic mutations are required.  Guided to mutate in the right spot at the right time.  




An excellent example, 57, of how ignorance of science gets in the way of understanding how the theory of evolution actually works.

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 25, 2012 - 1:31PM #16
steven_guy
Posts: 11,751

Mar 25, 2012 -- 1:15PM, 57 wrote:


Mar 24, 2012 -- 11:55PM, JCarlin wrote:


Mar 24, 2012 -- 11:39PM, jonny42 wrote:

I don't think that many people will ever find "We're here by chance" to be very believable. 


Which is why religions and those that use them deny a real education to their children  With no understanding of how evolution or anything else in the world works the alternattive of magic is an easy alternative.  Unfortunately magic does not pay the bills.  Oh, darn maybe we should have taught Johnny to read and think.  




Evolutionism in its self requires magic.  The bounds of randomness are too steep to overcome. 


Magic mutations are required.  Guided to mutate in the right spot at the right time.  




You ONLY say that because you're in the thrall of a religion that requires its followers to reject reason and evidence and embrace an unlikely myth as reality, and you refuse to learn about evolution, biology and genetics. You're the one with a problem.

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 25, 2012 - 1:35PM #17
chevy956
Posts: 1,961

Mar 25, 2012 -- 12:39PM, ctcss wrote:

IMO, it is a false choice to state that there is only religion, ignorance, and unkindness on one side, and science, knowledge, and kindness on the other side. It is the approach that one takes to any human endeavor that makes the difference as to the outcome. A shallow, unloving approach towards knowledge or towards one's neighbor is always going to cause problems no matter where such an approach stems from.

I, for one, am hoping that a more thoughtful, studied, and sincere approach to religion becomes more evident in society, rather a complete absence of it, just as I would like to see a more thoughtful, studied, and sincere approach to business, politics, sports, finance, etc. rather than simply eliminating them.

I find Jesus' teachings to be a very important part of how I approach life and I see no reason to abandon them.


Lovely sentiments, but in practice in the US, religion inculcates ignorance and unkindness in its members. Atheists aren't trying to teach bad science and historical studies in public schools, deprive woman of their biological choices, demonize gay marriage- the religious are.


Politics, sports, business, and finance are based on actual reality.They can function in the absence of religious mythos quite nicely. Magical thinking, of which relgion is a large subset, can be eliminated withoutout causing the slightest bit of harm to a functioning society. Western democracy would not be possible if secular rulers in Europe hadn't told the Church that they no longer had carte blanche to murder or harm religious dissenters. 


 

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 25, 2012 - 1:37PM #18
JCarlin
Posts: 6,799

Mar 25, 2012 -- 1:15PM, 57 wrote:

Evolutionism in its self requires magic.  The bounds of randomness are too steep to overcome. 


Magic mutations are required.  Guided to mutate in the right spot at the right time. 


Rather than respond to this well discussed issue here I refer you to more than ten years of responses to members like Trilobite, Pahu, and many others as well as yourself on Origins  who have tried to push that misinformation on that board and have been thoroughly refuted. 


It is of course on topic, as this kind of nonsense will doom religion to the backwaters of modern society, unable to compete in any real way in the non-service sectors of society. 

J'Carlin
If the shoe doesn't fit, don't cram your foot in it and complain.
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3 years ago  ::  Mar 25, 2012 - 1:48PM #19
teilhard
Posts: 51,432

Yes ... As a Person who is trained and experienced in The Natural Sciences, I DO make use of EVERY Tool at my Disposal in seeking Understanding of "God," Life, The Universe and Everything ... and I still DO Affirm "Religion" ... and I am not alone in this ...


Hence, my Observation that we Pattern-seeking Humans sometimes DISAGREE about The Patterns we find ...


Mar 25, 2012 -- 1:09PM, JCarlin wrote:


Mar 25, 2012 -- 10:19AM, teilhard wrote:

Human Beings are INFAMOUSLY "Pattern-Seeking" Animals ... We don't always AGREE on The Patterns we find ...

Mar 24, 2012 -- 11:55PM, JCarlin wrote:

Which is why religions and those that use them deny a real education to their children  With no understanding of how evolution or anything else in the world works the alternattive of magic is an easy alternative.  Unfortunately magic does not pto see if ay the bills.  Oh, darn maybe we should have taught Johnny to read and think.  



This is why educated rational people tend to subject the patterns we find to rational inquiry to determine if they can be supported by something other than the assertions of authority figures. 


When we find a pattern like religious interference in the public arena to replace science and math with dogma in schools, and "home schooling" when public schools cannot be influenced, we examine these patterns to see if there is a rational basis for them or if they are the result of religious authorities trying to influence secular schools.  Modern societies depend on science and technology for both income and communication so any attempt to weaken children’s ability to acquire the tools of science and technology must be to support the religious authority figures that depend on non-rational beliefs to support their positions.  Therefore the pattern of interference for religious dogma replacing science and technology appears to be real and dysfunctional socially. 








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3 years ago  ::  Mar 25, 2012 - 1:50PM #20
teilhard
Posts: 51,432

Yes ... False black/white either/or Dichotomies are neither Real-istic nor helpful ...


Mar 25, 2012 -- 12:39PM, ctcss wrote:


IMO, it is a false choice to state that there is only religion, ignorance, and unkindness on one side, and science, knowledge, and kindness on the other side. It is the approach that one takes to any human endeavor that makes the difference as to the outcome. A shallow, unloving approach towards knowledge or towards one's neighbor is always going to cause problems no matter where such an approach stems from.

I, for one, am hoping that a more thoughtful, studied, and sincere approach to religion becomes more evident in society, rather a complete absence of it, just as I would like to see a more thoughtful, studied, and sincere approach to business, politics, sports, finance, etc. rather than simply eliminating them.

I find Jesus' teachings to be a very important part of how I approach life and I see no reason to abandon them.





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