Post Reply
Page 1 of 18  •  1 2 3 4 5 6 ... 18 Next
Switch to Forum Live View Luke 17:21 and the Kingdom of God
2 years ago  ::  Mar 14, 2012 - 10:25PM #1
koolpoi
Posts: 6,438
In another thread there was an interesting difference of views on just what Jesus told the Pharisees about the KoG.Is it "within you" or" in your midst" or something else?If it is the first,is it within the Pharisees or some larger group?Is it divine grace,a loving heart or what?If the second,is Jesus saying He is the KoG or could He be speaking of the Pharisees or Jews as a group?Also,this statement was most likely spoken in Aramaic and preserved in oral tradition to be translated into Greek at some point.Might something have been lost or added in translation?
Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Mar 15, 2012 - 4:50AM #2
Dostojevsky
Posts: 7,336

Your whole argument is about Luke 17:21


The least you could have done is to quote it;)

Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Mar 15, 2012 - 5:49AM #3
Rgurley4
Posts: 8,653

Luke 17:21 and the Kingdom of God...a problem of interpretation


In another thread there was an interesting difference of views on just what Jesus told the Pharisees about the KoG.


Is it "within you" or" in your midst" or something else?...JESUS...the spiritual "Kingdom of God "...come down from heaven in the flesh...God-Man


If it is the first, is it within the Pharisees or some larger group?...Man was/is  created in the SPIRITUAL "...image..." of God...but it must have re-birth.


Is it (KoG) divine grace,a loving heart or what?...a spiritual realm...~33 years of Divinity walking  and talking and proving that the God-Man was on Planet Earth


If the second, is  Jesus saying He IS the KoG...YES!
or could He be speaking of the Pharisees or Jews as a group?...Divine speaking among the doubtful!


Also,this statement was most likely spoken in Aramaic and preserved in oral tradition to be translated into Greek at some point.
Might something have been lost or added in translation? Nope...Apostolic authors / scribes / witnesses had perfect spiritual recall.


Luke 17 (NASB) : Jesus..The Coming of the "Kingdom of God"
 20 Once, having been asked by the Pharisees when the "kingdom of God" would come, Jesus replied,
"The kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation,
21 nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the "kingdom of God" is AMONG you."
(Jesus was standing amidst his inquisitors...Jesus WAS the LIVING "kingdom of God" )
 22 Then he said to his disciples,
"The time is coming when you will long to see one of the days of the Son of Man, but you will not see it.
23 Men will tell you, 'There he is!' or 'Here he is!' Do not go running off after them.
24 For the Son of Man (in the last days)(Second Coming) will be like the lightning,
which flashes and lights up the sky from one end to the other.
25 But first he must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation.
(...sudden destruction of unbelievers...)...Sodom...Noah...examples
30 "It will be just like this on "the day the Son of Man" is revealed (Second Coming)...
37 "Where, Lord?" they asked.
      He replied, "Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather." (unbelievers in the 2nd Resurrection?)


KINGDOM:...is simply a "domain", but also a PERSON, a PLACE, a GOVERNMENT, and a Message! and a SPHERE of INFLUENCE
....ruled by a KING and therefore a benevolent monarchy.


KINGDOM of HEAVEN is a purely spiritual REALM, the omni-present and eternal dwelling place of the TRI-UNE God and His created Heavenly Hosts. It cannot be scientifically and empirically observed.
No Man except the GOD-MAN Jesus has seen / experienced the extent of the spiritual God the Father and His Heaven.
Yet the indwelling God the Holy Spirit allows us to pray and believe the promise of eternal life in heavenly bodies / souls / spirits.


KINGDOM of GOD has many faces and appears in the past / present / future.


Luk 17:21 (NASB)...the Koine GREEK
...nor will they say, 'Look, here it is!' or, 'There it is!'
For behold, the "kingdom of God" is in your midst." 


"the kingdom"   - G932   - basileia
"of God"            -G2316  - theos
"is"                   -G1510   - eimi
"in your"           -G4771   - sy
midst.""            -G1787   - entos

Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Mar 15, 2012 - 6:32AM #4
Kwinters
Posts: 21,922

Luke 17:20-21: Is the Kingdom "Within You" or "In Your Midst"?



It is also worth asking why Luke is the only instance there is of this term being used in conjunction with the KoG.


Jesus had two dads, and he turned out alright.~ Andy Gussert

“Feminism has fought no wars. It has killed no opponents. It has set up no concentration camps, starved no enemies, practiced no cruelties. Its battles have been for education, for the vote, for better working conditions…for safety on the streets…for child care, for social welfare…for rape crisis centers, women’s refuges, reforms in the law.

If someone says, “Oh, I’m not a feminist,” I ask, “Why, what’s your problem?”

Dale Spender
Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Mar 15, 2012 - 7:01AM #5
Rgurley4
Posts: 8,653

"Dr" Luke was a shrewd investigator. He probably had Mark + Matthew on his lap-top...Maybe even John's masterpiece...emphasizing DEITY!

Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Mar 15, 2012 - 2:42PM #6
koolpoi
Posts: 6,438

Mar 15, 2012 -- 4:50AM, Dostojevsky wrote:


Your whole argument is about Luke 17:21


The least you could have done is to quote it;)




The problem is I don't know which translation is correct.Did Jesus tell the Pharisees the KoG is "within you" or "in your midst"?Or is there a third choice?

Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Mar 15, 2012 - 3:23PM #7
Heretic_for_Christ
Posts: 5,488

Mar 15, 2012 -- 2:42PM, koolpoi wrote:


Mar 15, 2012 -- 4:50AM, Dostojevsky wrote:


Your whole argument is about Luke 17:21


The least you could have done is to quote it;)




The problem is I don't know which translation is correct.Did Jesus tell the Pharisees the KoG is "within you" or "in your midst"?Or is there a third choice?




The English language versions I have consulted are split about evenly, slight advantage to "within you." More to the point, "in your midst" implies that Jesus was speaking of himself. He referred to himself most often as the Son of Man, very occasionally in terms of son of God or son of David or Christ--but nowhere else, to my knowledge, as "Kingdom of God." It strikes me as a bizarre and uncharacteristic way for him to have referred to himself.

I prayed for deliverance from the hard world of facts and logic to the happy land where fantasy and prejudice reign. But God spake unto me, saying, "No, keep telling the truth," and to that end afflicted me with severe Trenchant Mouth. So I'm sorry for making cutting remarks, but it's the will of God.
Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Mar 15, 2012 - 3:25PM #8
davelaw40
Posts: 19,669

Mar 15, 2012 -- 6:32AM, Kwinters wrote:


Luke 17:20-21: Is the Kingdom "Within You" or "In Your Midst"?



It is also worth asking why Luke is the only instance there is of this term being used in conjunction with the KoG.





Because its rampant in GOT; its  noticiable by its absence

Non Quis, Sed Quid
Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Mar 15, 2012 - 3:31PM #9
Brainscramble
Posts: 9,006

Mar 14, 2012 -- 10:25PM, koolpoi wrote:

In another thread there was an interesting difference of views on just what Jesus told the Pharisees about the KoG.Is it "within you" or" in your midst" or something else?If it is the first,is it within the Pharisees or some larger group?Is it divine grace,a loving heart or what?If the second,is Jesus saying He is the KoG or could He be speaking of the Pharisees or Jews as a group?Also,this statement was most likely spoken in Aramaic and preserved in oral tradition to be translated into Greek at some point.Might something have been lost or added in translation?




First of all, the Kingdom of God is a real government (see Isaiah 9:7).  God's government wouldn't literally be within a human being.


Secondly, Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees....a group of religious leaders that he condemned as hypocrites and vipers.  Would he have meant that they had the kingdom inside of them?  Hardly.


Thirdly, the translation is tricky.  The way the KJV has it, it could be understood in more than one way.  It is confusing to say the least.  A more helpful rendering would be:


"The Kingdom of God is in your midst," as you mentioned above.  In fact, my KJV has noted in the margin:  "or, among you"


Jesus meant that he, as the King-designate and representative of that Kingdom, was there among them.


 


 

I am interested in your thoughts.


Pam

Christian Witness of Jehovah, the God and Father of Christ and of us all.
Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Mar 15, 2012 - 3:36PM #10
Brainscramble
Posts: 9,006

Mar 15, 2012 -- 7:01AM, Rgurley4 wrote:


"Dr" Luke was a shrewd investigator. He probably had Mark + Matthew on his lap-top...Maybe even John's masterpiece...emphasizing DEITY!





John's books were indeed masterpieces, and nowhere in any of them is Christ presented to be God Almighty.  Quite the contrary.

I am interested in your thoughts.


Pam

Christian Witness of Jehovah, the God and Father of Christ and of us all.
Quick Reply
Cancel
Page 1 of 18  •  1 2 3 4 5 6 ... 18 Next
 
    Viewing this thread :: 0 registered and 1 guest
    No registered users viewing
    Advertisement

    Beliefnet On Facebook