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3 years ago  ::  Mar 13, 2012 - 4:12PM #1
wohali
Posts: 10,227
I have an honest question: Do contemporary Mormons believe that American Indians are "Laminites"?
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3 years ago  ::  Mar 13, 2012 - 4:52PM #2
Esdraelon
Posts: 5,236

Mar 13, 2012 -- 4:12PM, wohali wrote:

I have an honest question: Do contemporary Mormons believe that American Indians are "Laminites"?



Mormon doctrine claims that Lehi's children eventually became two warring factions, which included the good, white Nephites and the bad, brown Lamanites. The Lamanites, eventually killed all the Nephites by 500 A.D. But the bad, brown Laminates continued to live on and are now called Native Americans.


At BYU they also appeared to be intrigued by the "blood of Lehi." Mormon researchers there gathered DNA samples from 100,000 volunteers around the world, which included South America and Israel. They hoped somehow to prove the claims made more than a century ago by Joseph Smith, that there is a connection between ancient Israel and modern Native Americans. Mormons often seem fixated upon genealogy as a religious preoccupation.


But credible scientists, outside of Mormon apologists, say no Israelites ever came to America 2,600 years ago. There is no linguistic or archaeological trace of such a culture. Michael Crawford, a University of Kansas professor of biological anthropology and author of Origins of Native Americans, Cambridge University Press stated emphatically, "I don't think there is one iota of evidence that suggests a lost tribe from Israel made it all the way to the New World. It is a great story, slain by ugly fact,"


Ironically, the database compiled by BYU can only conclude that there is no evidence of a Native American/Israel connection. In fact, no DNA study at any university has ever demonstrated otherwise. However, it is doubtful that BYU would ever release any research that could potentially prove embarrassing to the church. www.rickross.com/reference/mormon/mormon...


How are you, my man, hope you have been doing well.

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 13, 2012 - 5:07PM #3
mecdukebec
Posts: 14,724

In my experience with LDS, it's moving the goal-post:  Yes, they're the Native Americans, and No, they're not the Native Americans, and they are, somewhere between the Berring Strait and the Horn of Patagonia.  Just please no, do not claim that the Mohawks of Kebec are the "lost tribes" of Israel. 

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"Wesley told the early Methodists to gain all they could and save all they could so that they could give all they could. It means that I consider my money to belong to God and I see myself as one of the hungry people who needs to get fed with God’s money. If I really have put all my trust in Jesus Christ as savior and Lord, then nothing I have is really my own anymore."
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3 years ago  ::  Mar 13, 2012 - 6:13PM #4
Ironhold
Posts: 11,549

Mar 13, 2012 -- 4:12PM, wohali wrote:

I have an honest question: Do contemporary Mormons believe that American Indians are "Laminites"?



You'll have to forgive the previous two posters; they're admitted anti-Mormons, and so in that sense their research is shoddy to begin with.




The church holds that at least some portion of the American Indian populace are, indeed, Lamanite in origin.

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 13, 2012 - 6:17PM #5
mecdukebec
Posts: 14,724

Mar 13, 2012 -- 6:13PM, Ironhold wrote:


Mar 13, 2012 -- 4:12PM, wohali wrote:

I have an honest question: Do contemporary Mormons believe that American Indians are "Laminites"?



You'll have to forgive the previous two posters; they're admitted anti-Mormons, and so in that sense their research is shoddy to begin with.




The church holds that at least some portion of the American Indian populace are, indeed, Lamanite in origin.




Translation, "We don't have a clue, but we'll punt and say "Yeah, but just don't ask us for more specifics."

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"Wesley told the early Methodists to gain all they could and save all they could so that they could give all they could. It means that I consider my money to belong to God and I see myself as one of the hungry people who needs to get fed with God’s money. If I really have put all my trust in Jesus Christ as savior and Lord, then nothing I have is really my own anymore."
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3 years ago  ::  Mar 13, 2012 - 7:07PM #6
wohali
Posts: 10,227

Ironhold, I understand that it is church doctrine. Do you believe it?

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 13, 2012 - 9:56PM #7
Ironhold
Posts: 11,549

Mar 13, 2012 -- 7:07PM, wohali wrote:


Ironhold, I understand that it is church doctrine. Do you believe it?




Yes.



Contrary to what most critics of the church would have you think, there is evidence to suggest that there were numerous instances of contact between the Old World and the New World before Columbus; in fact, the 1995 edition of the book "Lies My Teacher Told Me" even had an entire page devoted to listing the peoples who are believed to have made contact, the evidence for this contact, and how strong or weak it was from a historical standpoint.


In that sense, the Jaredite and Nephite crossings don't particularly stand out.

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 14, 2012 - 12:07AM #8
Aka_me
Posts: 12,298

temporary little outposts of vikings in america... and there is concrete evidence.


now scale that out to tens or hundreds of thousands of people developing for upwards of a thousand years...


and no concrete evidence WHERE they were.



as has been stated countless times, and ignored just as many times...


even if contact with Hebrews did happen, there is NOTHING to connect it to being that of BoM cultures.


unless of course we find a leahona or glowing rocks.


Ethan Smith could just as easily been correct with his View of Hebrews 1825


rendering the BoM cultures purely imaginary.


#1 did Hebrews travel to America?


#2 if so were they BoM cultures?


#3 even with the above established... we STILL have no way to establish today's church as being God's organization when everything MAY have died with Joseph Smith.



thinking that extremely rough circumstancial evidence for #1 amounts to anything is to completely fail to grasp the connections necessary.

The UN says the ebola outbreak must be controlled within 60 days or else the world faces an "unprecedented" situation for which there is no plan.
this is absolutely fantastic as it unites the world into being OUR problem rather than THEIR problem.
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3 years ago  ::  Mar 14, 2012 - 2:18AM #9
moksha8088
Posts: 4,984

Most Laminates are the indirect descendants of the Cedars of Lebanon.

Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
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3 years ago  ::  Mar 14, 2012 - 8:32AM #10
mecdukebec
Posts: 14,724

Mar 13, 2012 -- 9:56PM, Ironhold wrote:


Mar 13, 2012 -- 7:07PM, wohali wrote:


Ironhold, I understand that it is church doctrine. Do you believe it?




Yes.



Contrary to what most critics of the church would have you think, there is evidence to suggest that there were numerous instances of contact between the Old World and the New World before Columbus; in fact, the 1995 edition of the book "Lies My Teacher Told Me" even had an entire page devoted to listing the peoples who are believed to have made contact, the evidence for this contact, and how strong or weak it was from a historical standpoint.


In that sense, the Jaredite and Nephite crossings don't particularly stand out.





The Native Americans used to be the remnants of a quondam once huge Laminite civilisation that stretched from sea to shining sea, then, poof!, disappeared.   Moksha's got a better bet with the Cedars of Lebanon Theory. 

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"Wesley told the early Methodists to gain all they could and save all they could so that they could give all they could. It means that I consider my money to belong to God and I see myself as one of the hungry people who needs to get fed with God’s money. If I really have put all my trust in Jesus Christ as savior and Lord, then nothing I have is really my own anymore."
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