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2 years ago  ::  May 03, 2012 - 1:01AM #171
Habala?!
Posts: 1,224

May 2, 2012 -- 8:22AM, mecdukebec wrote:


May 1, 2012 -- 8:59PM, Habala?! wrote:

Close. The Jaredites supposedly came in windowless submarine like barges. The Lamenites and Nephite came later and both originated from a small group of Hebrews that came in a boat designed with divine inspiration. You pretty much got the rest of it right.



Then how did les Sioux and les Iroquois garner French names?  See, you weren't expecting the original Israelitish Francophones of the New World being here, first!  The Pilgrims of Massachusetts Bay were met by First Nations people quoting Voltaire.  That's a fact, just like the BoM is, too.  Wink




Candide is one of my favorites, so I'm inclined to believe.

"When you walk, you might like to take the hand of a child. She will receive your concentration and stability, and you will receive her freshness and innocence." -Tich Naht Hanh
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2 years ago  ::  May 03, 2012 - 1:10AM #172
Habala?!
Posts: 1,224

May 2, 2012 -- 11:59AM, wohali wrote:


Ironhold, "now we know"?


Please, we've always known that Indians used war clubs:


amohkali.com/?p=494


A club edged with obsidian is not a broadsword.


What kindf of a saddle does one use on a deer?




I've been over this with Iron a couple of times.


In fact I'm pretty sure I brought up Musashi the last time we had this discussion. I practice two Japanese martial arts, one of which is a sword art and the other is partly based upon the movement of the sword. Not bragging. I'm just a beginner, but even a non martial artist can understand the difference between a wooden representation of a sword, a club studded with obsidian and a real sword.


There is also the fact that the BoM mentions metal swords with hilts and sharp tips.


I think this whole thing is just a way of derailing the thread to avoid answering the kind question you asked about deer.


I expect that just like every other time Iron will disappear for a while, come back to make excuses and to promise an answer only to disappear again long enough for the thread to die out. Then in a couple of weeks he'll reference the macuahuitl once again.


"When you walk, you might like to take the hand of a child. She will receive your concentration and stability, and you will receive her freshness and innocence." -Tich Naht Hanh
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2 years ago  ::  May 03, 2012 - 1:51AM #173
Aka_me
Posts: 11,931

May 3, 2012 -- 1:10AM, Habala?! wrote:

There is also the fact that the BoM mentions metal swords with hilts and sharp tips.



11 And again, they have brought swords, the hilts thereof have perished, and the blades thereof were cankered with rust;



now if someone can get obsidian to rust...


we might be able to see a connection here


the problem is, and correct me if I'm wrong, but wood and obsidian do NOT rust.


so now we can completely forget about clubs, sticks, and sharp rocks because the comparison simply does not relate to metal swords.


there is absolutely no metallurgy for weapons found ANYWHERE in north or south america.

internet troll... anyone who won't stop posting about bad spelling.
the government KILLS and EXPERIMENTS and TORTURES people, without ever apologizing, being held accountable or punished. and you expect me to believe they've automagically grown a conscience to not continue? like bloody hades they have.
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2 years ago  ::  May 03, 2012 - 8:15AM #174
mecdukebec
Posts: 14,464

May 3, 2012 -- 1:01AM, Habala?! wrote:


May 2, 2012 -- 8:22AM, mecdukebec wrote:


May 1, 2012 -- 8:59PM, Habala?! wrote:

Close. The Jaredites supposedly came in windowless submarine like barges. The Lamenites and Nephite came later and both originated from a small group of Hebrews that came in a boat designed with divine inspiration. You pretty much got the rest of it right.



Then how did les Sioux and les Iroquois garner French names?  See, you weren't expecting the original Israelitish Francophones of the New World being here, first!  The Pilgrims of Massachusetts Bay were met by First Nations people quoting Voltaire.  That's a fact, just like the BoM is, too.  Wink




Candide is one of my favorites, so I'm inclined to believe.





"Fairy tales can come true, it can happen to you, if one is Francophone at heart." -- Dr Pangloss. 

*******

"Wesley told the early Methodists to gain all they could and save all they could so that they could give all they could. It means that I consider my money to belong to God and I see myself as one of the hungry people who needs to get fed with God’s money. If I really have put all my trust in Jesus Christ as savior and Lord, then nothing I have is really my own anymore."
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2 years ago  ::  May 03, 2012 - 2:44PM #175
Ironhold
Posts: 11,380

May 3, 2012 -- 1:51AM, Aka_me wrote:


May 3, 2012 -- 1:10AM, Habala?! wrote:

There is also the fact that the BoM mentions metal swords with hilts and sharp tips.



11 And again, they have brought swords, the hilts thereof have perished, and the blades thereof were cankered with rust;



now if someone can get obsidian to rust...


we might be able to see a connection here


the problem is, and correct me if I'm wrong, but wood and obsidian do NOT rust.


so now we can completely forget about clubs, sticks, and sharp rocks because the comparison simply does not relate to metal swords.


there is absolutely no metallurgy for weapons found ANYWHERE in north or south america.




I'll have to go back and dig out my book, but copper tools have been discovered. that date back to the right period.


And as anyone who's ever dealt with copper can tell you, it does indeed discolor and even corrode under certain circumstances.


In fact, back in the days of the USSR, there was a major struggle between the chemical companies and the pipe manufacturers. Certain chemicals just ate metal pipes for lunch, but the pipe manufacturers refused to produce plastic pipes because their quotas were established in terms of weight rather than length; plastic was so much lighter that the pipe manufacturers would have to work twice as hard to meet their quotas.

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2 years ago  ::  May 03, 2012 - 3:00PM #176
Kemmer
Posts: 16,260

What kindf of a saddle does one use on a deer?



I thought one ATE a saddle of venison.  Live and learn.

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2 years ago  ::  May 03, 2012 - 3:04PM #177
Kemmer
Posts: 16,260

there is absolutely no metallurgy for weapons found ANYWHERE in north or south america.



Actually, the Haida, Tlingit, and Kwakiutl of the Pacific Northwest used native copper in artwork, and I'm sure it's not a stretch to think they might have fashioned a knife or two if they had found a big enought piece.


BTW, do the Mormons still think the "Laminites" built Teothuacan in Central Mexico, about 40 miles north of Mexico City?  Awhile back, somebody on this board said the "cement" found there proves the Laminites built it.  The "cement" of course, is stucco which all MesoAmericans made by burning limestone.


In any case, the Romans invented cement--even cement which hardens and cures underwater.  The wharves of ancient Ephesus are made of such.  I've been there.

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2 years ago  ::  May 03, 2012 - 3:16PM #178
wohali
Posts: 10,227

Metalworking was practiced by pre-contact Indians, but not much for weapons:


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metallurgy_in_Pre-...


Ironhold, copper may discolor, but it sure as hell doesn't rust.

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2 years ago  ::  May 03, 2012 - 10:40PM #179
Aka_me
Posts: 11,931

May 3, 2012 -- 2:44PM, Ironhold wrote:

I'll have to go back and dig out my book, but copper tools have been discovered. that date back to the right period.


And as anyone who's ever dealt with copper can tell you, it does indeed discolor and even corrode under certain circumstances.



The term "rusting" is reserved for the corrosion of iron.


Copper does not rust. Rust is a mixture of hydrated iron oxides so, by definition, if will only form on iron and iron-rich materials (such as some types of steel). Copper can get a covering of Verdigris, which is a green-colored compound.


as anyone who's ever dealt with copper can tell you... green or brown is NOT considered rust.


And I said: Lord, whither shall I go that I may find ore to molten

internet troll... anyone who won't stop posting about bad spelling.
the government KILLS and EXPERIMENTS and TORTURES people, without ever apologizing, being held accountable or punished. and you expect me to believe they've automagically grown a conscience to not continue? like bloody hades they have.
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2 years ago  ::  May 03, 2012 - 11:29PM #180
Ironhold
Posts: 11,380

May 3, 2012 -- 10:40PM, Aka_me wrote:


And I said: Lord, whither shall I go that I may find ore to molten




Nephi was still in the Middle East when he was asking for ore to make the tools so that they could build the boats.

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