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Switch to Forum Live View Is lying considered a sin?
3 years ago  ::  Mar 14, 2012 - 11:06AM #41
lope
Posts: 11,796

Mar 13, 2012 -- 10:25PM, mainecaptain wrote:


I almost get the impression, that those who claim they (generic)  would not lie, Still like other people lying whether it furthers their own agenda.


Example, right wingers like it when right wing politicians and radio personalities lie, so the right wing agenda can be furthered. The ends justifies the means.


If that be the case. Isn't supporting someone who lies, the same thing. Don't you share the sin?





It is also not correct that left wingers like it when left winger policians and radio personalitie and TV personalities lie, so the left wing agenda can be furthered.  The ends justifies the means.   Both atitudes are incorrect.  If we support a politician, left or right, we are supporting someone who lies.  It would be us sharing the problem except there is no one to support who does not lie.  There are certainly degrees of liars which Clinton seemed to prove.

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 15, 2012 - 10:16AM #42
Adelphe
Posts: 28,744

Mar 12, 2012 -- 8:55AM, Ed2 wrote:


So are you saying that Rahab should have told the truth to the king of Jericho and his messengers about the Israelite spies?



I'm saying that if she had told the truth, God would have honored that truth.


I'm saying that she didn't--but wasn't praised for it.


I'm also saying that we're all sinners--thank God for salvation "by grace through faith."


Mar 12, 2012 -- 7:30AM, Adelphe wrote:


Well, from what the Bible is saying, her dishonest behavior demonstrated her faith in Yahweh and served to protect the Israelite spies from harm as well as herself and her family. Also, Joshua 2:24 and Joshua 3:7 shows that Yahweh was going along with everything that was happening.


Additionally, even James 2:25 clearly states that Rahab was considered righteous for "what she did"(NIV, GWT, NLV)....which included outmaneuvering the king of Jericho's gaurds by means of deception.




What she did was confess faith in the LORD.  That's what she's praised for.  That's what the entire list of OT saints in Hebrews 11 is praised for.  That's what the entire chapter is about.  Faith.  In fact, it's known colloquially as "The Great Hall of Faith."

Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason, my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and I will not retract anything, for to go against conscience would be neither right nor safe.  Here I stand.  I can do no other.  God help me.  Amen.
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3 years ago  ::  Mar 15, 2012 - 4:45PM #43
Ed2
Posts: 3,322

Mar 15, 2012 -- 10:16AM, Adelphe wrote:


Mar 12, 2012 -- 8:55AM, Ed2 wrote:


So are you saying that Rahab should have told the truth to the king of Jericho and his messengers about the Israelite spies?



I'm saying that if she had told the truth, God would have honored that truth.



*snort/snicker*


Mar 15, 2012 -- 10:16AM, Adelphe wrote:


I'm saying that she didn't--but wasn't praised for it.



*snort/snicker*


Mar 15, 2012 -- 10:16AM, Adelphe wrote:


Mar 12, 2012 -- 7:30AM, Adelphe wrote:


Well, from what the Bible is saying, her dishonest behavior demonstrated her faith in Yahweh and served to protect the Israelite spies from harm as well as herself and her family. Also, Joshua 2:24 and Joshua 3:7 shows that Yahweh was going along with everything that was happening.


Additionally, even James 2:25 clearly states that Rahab was considered righteous for "what she did"(NIV, GWT, NLV)....which included outmaneuvering the king of Jericho's gaurds by means of deception.




What she did was confess faith in the LORD.  That's what she's praised for.  That's what the entire list of OT saints in Hebrews 11 is praised for.  That's what the entire chapter is about.  Faith.  In fact, it's known colloquially as "The Great Hall of Faith."




First of all, you're identifying your quotes incorrectly. Me not you said the "Well, from what the Bible is saying, her dishonest behavior demonstrated. . ." quote.


Second of all, in your rebuttal, you switched away from refuting my reference to James 2:25 and then make your argument with Hebrews 11.


And yes, Hebrews 11 is a list of people who are praised for their faith in Yahweh, however, James 2:25 makes it indisputably clear that Rehab is "considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction"...


www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Jam...


which, according to scripture, depended upon Rehab lying and deceiving. 


However, if you don't believe me....perhaps you will believe what is said  in Joshua chapter 2 and chapter 3:


Joshua 2:3-4(ERV)...


3So the king of Jericho sent this message to Rahab: “Do not hide the men who came and stayed in your house. Bring them out. They have come to spy on our country.”


 4 Rahab had hidden the two men, but she said, “They did come here, but I didn’t know where they came from. 5 In the evening, when it was time to close the city gate, the men left. I don’t know where they went. But if you go quickly, maybe you can catch them.” 6 (Rahab said this, but really she had taken the men up to the roof and had hidden them in the flax b]">[b] that she had piled up there.)


Joshua 2:14-24...


14 The men agreed and said, “We will trade our lives for yours. Don’t tell anyone what we are doing. Then, when the LORD gives us the land, we will be kind to you. You can trust us.”


15 Rahab’s house was built into the city wall, so she used a rope to let the men down through a window. 16 Then she said to them, “Go into the hills so that the king’s men will not accidentally find you. Hide there for three days. After the king’s men come back, you can go on your way.”


17 The men said to her, “We made a promise to you. But you must do one thing, or we will not be responsible for our promise. 18 When we come back to this land, you must tie in your window this red rope you are using to help us escape. You must bring your father, your mother, your brothers, and all your family into your house with you. 19 We will protect everyone who stays in this house. If anyone in your house is hurt, we will be responsible. But if they go out of your house and are killed, we will not be responsible. It will be their own fault. 20 We are making this agreement with you. But if you tell anyone about what we are doing, we will be free from this agreement.


21Rahab answered, “I will do just what you said.” She said goodbye, and the men left her house. Then she tied the red rope in the window.


 22 The men left her house and went into the hills. They stayed there for three days. The king’s men looked all along the road. After three days, they stopped looking and went back to the city. 23 Then the two men went back to Joshua. They left the hills and crossed the river. They went to Joshua and told him everything that they had learned. 24 They said to him, “The LORD really has given us all the land. All the people in that country are afraid of us.”


and finally, in Joshua 3:1...


1 Early the next morning, Joshua and all the Israelites got up and left Acacia. They traveled to the Jordan River and camped there before they crossed it.


and Joshua 3:7...


7 Then the LORD said to Joshua, “Today I will begin to make you a great man for all the Israelites to see. Then the people will know that I am with you just as I was with Moses.


www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Jos...


www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Jos...


 


 


 


 


 


  

I think that it's pretty sad and pretty unbelievable that there are so many healthy, powerful, and healing foods that I have learned about from watching "The Doctor Oz Show"...but unfortunately, most Americans from their childhood on up, have only learned how to eat what is essentially equivalent to 'garbage'...and are basically in a 'slumber' when it comes to not having a clue as to what that kind of food is doing to their bodies and to their health. It's really sad.

~Ed2

"Hmmm. So you're saying that for Jesus' followers(throughout the centuries) to truly live a 'godly' life, they had to believe that the end of the world was just around the corner?"

~Ed2(See post #53)

"Although, I think that I'll change that to: Also...I liked the way that you dodged what I had said about being 'concerned that the Bible had to use subterfuge as a means to an end' in my post #137."

~Ed2(See post #145)

"It's utterly beyond belief, that the wealthiest country in the history of the world, fails to care for all it's people."

~Dr. Patrick Dowling, MD(From The Doctor Oz Show, which aired on 11/23/11.)

"If I could prescribe any drug on the planet, it would be food [be]cause it works better, faster, and cheaper than any medication. Food is the most powerful medicine we have...to treat chronic disease like diabetes."

~Dr. Mark Hyman, MD(From The Doctor Oz Show, which aired on 01/13/12. Also, go to www.doctoroz.com for more information.)
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3 years ago  ::  Mar 15, 2012 - 8:03PM #44
Eliascomes
Posts: 1,067

 Sarah called God a Liar, but God overlooked as if He expected it from her. He knew her heart.


Genesis 18:15 Sarah was afraid, so she lied and said, “I did not laugh.” But he said, “Yes, you did laugh.”

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