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Switch to Forum Live View How does Jehovah view Christendom? Is Christendom a force for peace?
6 years ago  ::  Mar 07, 2012 - 3:14PM #21
Posts: 18,459

Kemmer & Mattica - I do not apostate sites as they are usually lies or deceptions...

Whoa!  Precisely the reason I don't bother with JW sites, although I'd not use the term "apostate" in regards to JW sites--that term is idiosyncratic only with JWs and Mormons.

(Be that as it may, I do admit to reading WTs and Awakes for amusement.)

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6 years ago  ::  Mar 07, 2012 - 3:17PM #22
Posts: 18,459

Mar 7, 2012 -- 1:01PM, cherubino wrote:

Or like saying that Rick Santorum is running on a Catholic ticket. He ain't.

Santorum is about as Catholic as Torquemada.

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6 years ago  ::  Mar 07, 2012 - 3:31PM #23
Posts: 18,459

The Bosnian Serbs, mainly followers of the Bosnian Orthodox church, more than the other groups in the country, first adopted a policy of "ethnic cleansing." In reality, it was actually religious cleansing. This involved the forced relocation of the mostly Roman Catholic Croats and the Muslims. As a precursor to this policy, non-Serbs were identified as traitors, and a massive propaganda campaign started. A program of ethnic cleansing was started: Non-serbs were removed from their homes and forcibly relocated. Ethnic cleansing evolved into religious genocide

Hmm...I wonder if the fact that the Balkans were under the rule of the Ottomans for centuries, who weren't too keen on Christians has anything to do with it; and the fact that the Croats have always hated the Serbs.  The Croats sided with the Nazis against the Serbs, and the poor Bosnians were "odd man out".  It's always been like that with the Balkans.  Tito kept the old Yugoslavia together only at point of gun.

The JWs are just a simple, American mini-sect with like world views.


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6 years ago  ::  Mar 07, 2012 - 4:42PM #24
Posts: 3,711

Mar 7, 2012 -- 2:23PM, Newtonian wrote:

You all - I have to admit I am personally involved in this genocide research and religious violence research - as I am part German and part Irish - and so the holocaust in Nazi dominated lands, and the violence between Catholics and Protestants in Ireland strike deep in my heart.

Why blame this on Catholics and Protestants? There were plenty of Catholics and Protestants sitting at home, playing with their children, being good citizens, helping their neighbors, going to work every day, and completely uninvolved with the Nazi genocide of Jews.

Oh...I get it! We're playing a Watchtower game!!!

Well, I'd like to open it up for more nominees.

How about ethnic groups and nationalities? Why limit ourselves to Christendom??? So let's rewrite some of this stuff:

Mar 7, 2012 -- 2:23PM, Newtonian wrote:

You all - I have to admit I am personally involved in this genocide research and religious violence research - as I am part German and part Irish - and so the holocaust in Nazi dominated lands, and the violence between Catholics and Protestants {insert Europeans, or your favorite ethnic group/nationality you just love to hate here} strike deep in my heart.

However, I would be amiss if I did not mention an atheist dominated regime which committed perhaps the worst genocide in history - and, as my wife is Ukrainian, this strikes home also.

Stalin systmatically starved some 20 million Ukrainians to death!

That being said, frankly religious {Soviet, German, French, English, etc.} regimes have historically been no better.

Our literature has exposed this - not just me - e.g.:

An exerpt:

"Religion's Europe's Dismal Record

The Guardian makes the following observation: "The Roman Catholic church Italians had a deplorable record of colluding with fascism throughout the 20th century, from the congratulations it bestowed on General Franco after the Spanish civil war, to its recent efforts on behalf of General Pinochet." The Guardian also noted that Pope Pius XII, the wartime pontiff, "was happy enough to come to an arrangement with [Hitler] and steer clear of potential embarrassments like denouncing the Holocaust."

The Age states: "The claims of Christianity {Europeans} have rung hollow on too many occasions. Christians Europeans have not managed to preserve their own internal peace and unity. . . . The many wars of plunder and conquest justified in terms of winning converts to Christ attest to that. Faith, hope and love may be the pre-eminent Christian (French, Polish, Slavic} virtues, but those who are said to aspire to those virtues can be just as cynical, just as prone to despondency as non-Christians anglo-saxons, and arguably no more charitable. . . . It was a Christian German country that gave birth to the Holocaust and another an Anglo-Saxon country that unleashed the horrors of atomic warfare on Japan."

Many have turned away from traditional religions  (England, Spain, Germany, Italy, Russia, Poland, America, etc} because of their role in supporting wars and oppressive political regimes."

In my next post I will document religious hispanic involvement in the violence in the Spanish Civil War.

Feeling left out? There's no need to be. Give us a few lines about yourself and we'll find some way to include you as well!*

*offer excludes baptized members of the Organization in good standing

The Watchtower game: it's easy and fun when you know how! Smile

Moderated by Nanalulu222 on Mar 07, 2012 - 05:01PM
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag
you down to their level and then beat you with
experience ~ Mark Twain

If you are neutral on situations of injustice
you have chosen the side of the oppressor ~
Desmond Tutu
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6 years ago  ::  Mar 07, 2012 - 5:39PM #25
Posts: 11,477

Cherubino, you must understand that JWs view all humans as members of groups, not as individuals.  As a member of a group, you are personally responsible (oh, yes, contradictions abound in this world view - they have to, to make it work) for every wrong thing ANYONE in that group has done.  Not just that, but the entire group has done or condoned this wrong thing because they were taught to do so by their pastors, all of whom are agents of Satan.  This is official WTS teaching.  NO ONE does things as an individual, with an independent motive, every wrong thing is done with the approval of every non-JW, because all members of groups are identical in thought, belief, motive, understanding, and in every other way.

Notice how Newtonian keeps discussing Rwanda, for all the world as though Christians (in this case, Catholics) taught anyone there to kill anyone else.  Those few that did, WERE IN THE WRONG BY THEIR OWN STANDARDS, but the WTS insists that those WERE the standards.  The entire world, including the WTS/GB who teach this, knows that no Christian believes or teaches that, but a few examples of bad non-JW behavior dang ALL of non-JW Christianity.  You'll notice that the example of Rwanda is brought to address the thread entitled "JEHOVAH'S opinon of non-JWs".  Newtonian's point is that since some so-called Christians in Rwanda taught NON-Christian ideas and behavior, that ALL non-JWs are not only guilty of the slaughter, but firmly endorse this non-Christian teaching.  Oh, he'll deny that he's teaching these actual words, but you'll find no qualifier or contradiction to them in his posts.  Nope, ALL Catholics are hated by Jehovah for the horrible actions of a few.  The JW God, you see, does not acknowledge individuals, at least not those who do good things.  You will NEVER EVER read any WTS tract that says some non-JW group is good, because some member of that group had done a truly generous and sacrificial good thing.  When forced to the wall, JWs will acknowledge this person, but quickly find flaws in them, and never attribute their goodness and generosity to any other member in the group, NEVER.  If, however, that one individual does something wrong, then, of course, the entire group is responsible for being just as wrong.

This is why Newtonian's, and the entire WTS's, premise is that Jehovah dislikes or hates all non-JWs.  There are sinners in every group, which taint the entire group.  This does NOT apply to JWs, of course (their double standards will make your jaw drop, and are often so outrageous that you'll laugh out loud in denial, just wait and see).  Oh, no, they rarely admit that any JW has done anything really wrong, and, when it is proved undeniably, that JW is no longer a JW, and the group most certainly had nothing to do with the wrong-doing!  No, no, you must observe the double-standard at all times!

Oh, by the way, these are the grounds, together with flat-out, sometimes outrageous, lies on which the WTS/GB claims moral authority over all other Christians.  Just in case you were wondering.

Moderated by Nanalulu222 on Mar 07, 2012 - 06:58PM
"No matter how big and bad you are, when a two-year-old hands you a toy phone, you answer it."  ~ (common sense)

"Never place a period where God has placed a comma."  ~ Gracie Allen

"I care not for a man's religion whose dog and cat are not the better for it." ~ Abraham Lincoln

"I wonder sometimes if we ever give God a headache." ~ Dontay Hall, age 8
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6 years ago  ::  Mar 07, 2012 - 9:27PM #26
Posts: 3,082

Ok, so in the OT Jehovah used the nation of Isreal to wage war and genocide.  Now fast forward the chosen people, aka Isreal, is now the spiritual nation of isreal, aka 144k jw's, all profecies point toward Isreal being uniquely involved in the end of the world, so is the 144k jw's responsible for doing the works of satan and of the jehovah?

Is jehovah going to use 144k jw's to committ mass murder suicide and rape.

If so I think I'd rather stick with christendom who presently hopes god is a god of peace.

Moderated by rangerken on Mar 07, 2012 - 10:29PM
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6 years ago  ::  Mar 07, 2012 - 9:45PM #27
Posts: 18,459

Mar  7, 2012 -- 11:23AM, Newtonian wrote:

You all - I have to admit I am personally involved in this genocide research and religious violence research - as I am part German and part Irish - and so the holocaust in Nazi dominated lands, and the violence between Catholics and Protestants in Ireland strike deep in my heart.

One of my acquaintances is an Irish priest who returns to Ireland every year.  He says he's very surprised by the media coverage of Protestant/Catholic conflict in that country.  He maintains religion plays only a minor role; it's mostly political: Northern Ireland loyalists to the UK vs those wishing to join the Irish Republic.

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