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Switch to Forum Live View Christ returned as an Iranian Inmate?
3 years ago  ::  Mar 06, 2012 - 1:55PM #1
Lilwabbit
Posts: 2,895

Huh?

With the estimated following of about 7,8 million adherents, Bahá'u'lláh (1817-1892), the prophet-founder of the Bahá'í Faith, is thus far the most successful claimant of being the Second Coming of Christ.
  
Is this a story of just another cult leader, a delusional lunatic, or actually someone to be taken seriously?


But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect. (NKJV, Matt. 24:43-44)


The thief came and left. The world missed it.


Feel free to debate the radical claim of Bahá'u'lláh on this thread.



Kind regards,



LilWabbit     

"All things have I willed for you, and you too, for your own sake."
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3 years ago  ::  Mar 07, 2012 - 9:24AM #2
Seefan
Posts: 3,954

Mar 6, 2012 -- 1:55PM, Lilwabbit wrote:


Huh?

With the estimated following of about 7,8 million adherents, Bahá'u'lláh (1817-1892), the prophet-founder of the Bahá'í Faith, is thus far the most successful claimant of being the Second Coming of Christ.
  
Is this a story of just another cult leader, a delusional lunatic, or actually someone to be taken seriously?


But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect. (NKJV, Matt. 24:43-44)


The thief came and left. The world missed it.


Feel free to debate the radical claim of Bahá'u'lláh on this thread.



Kind regards,



LilWabbit     



I believe every work Baha'u'llah claims but I wonder how much debate you would get over on the Christian debate site? 


Matt. KJ 43But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.


 What would house broken up refer too?

Today the one overriding need is unity and harmony among the beloved of the Lord, for they should have among them but one heart and soul and should, so far as in them lieth, unitedly withstand the hostility of all the peoples of the world ... (Baha'i Writings)
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3 years ago  ::  Mar 07, 2012 - 11:22AM #3
world citizen
Posts: 5,485

LilWabbit ~


I've had a number of talks with a local Baptist minister (who happens to be a neighbor), and he assures me that I'm wrong in my thinking because Christ will return in the same place from where He ascended and that all eyes will see Him when He comes down "with the clouds."  And as he's speaking I'm thinking to myself, "They're the 'clouds' of which He spoke!"  This must be one of the reasons why Baha'u'llah warned:  "Let thine abode be under the stone, but seek not the shelter of the cleric."  So many warnings and clues in the NT but all others ignored by a cleric who, one would think, should know his Bible intimately.


Seefan ~


As to your question about a house being "broken up," I believe it refers to the relationships within.  Often when a member of a close-knit family changes their religion from the family's  traditional faith, it can create an unhealthy atmosphere and literally break up a family.  I had a friend (now deceased) whose mother almost divorced her father when he left Judaism.  One of her sons followed suit of his grandfather, becoming a Baha'i, and she became distrought.  When she herself a few years later also left Judaism for the Baha'i Faith, her husband almost divorced her.  It can be a major test for many households.  I doubt it was much different for those who left Judaism to follow Christ 2000 years ago.



I believe every work Baha'u'llah claims but I wonder how much debate you would get over on the Christian debate site?


Such a thread in the Christian forum would be considered proselytizing of the Baha'i Faith and would be bounced back to this board. (wc in moderator mode)

Blessed is he who mingleth with all men in a spirit of utmost kindliness and love. ~Baha'u'llah
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3 years ago  ::  Mar 07, 2012 - 12:24PM #4
Jupiter6208
Posts: 2,367

Mar 6, 2012 -- 1:55PM, Lilwabbit wrote:


Huh?

With the estimated following of about 7,8 million adherents, Bahá'u'lláh (1817-1892), the prophet-founder of the Bahá'í Faith, is thus far the most successful claimant of being the Second Coming of Christ.
  
Is this a story of just another cult leader, a delusional lunatic, or actually someone to be taken seriously?


But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect. (NKJV, Matt. 24:43-44)


The thief came and left. The world missed it.


Feel free to debate the radical claim of Bahá'u'lláh on this thread.



Kind regards,



LilWabbit     





I thought there were about 5 milion Bahai's is that a accurate number? just wondering.

"A person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person."  Dave Berry



You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger. Buddha.

What the heart loves, the will chooses, and the mind justifies.”


― Thomas Cranmer
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3 years ago  ::  Mar 07, 2012 - 12:50PM #5
Seefan
Posts: 3,954

Mar 7, 2012 -- 11:22AM, world citizen wrote:


Seefan ~


As to your question about a house being "broken up," I believe it refers to the relationships within.  Often when a member of a close-knit family changes their religion from the family's  traditional faith, it can create an unhealthy atmosphere and literally break up a family.  I had a friend (now deceased) whose mother almost divorced her father when he left Judaism.  One of her sons followed suit of his grandfather, becoming a Baha'i, and she became distrought.  When she herself a few years later also left Judaism for the Baha'i Faith, her husband almost divorced her.  It can be a major test for many households.  I doubt it was much different for those who left Judaism to follow Christ 2000 years ago.


I believe every work Baha'u'llah claims but I wonder how much debate you would get over on the Christian debate site?


Such a thread in the Christian forum would be considered proselytizing of the Baha'i Faith and would be bounced back to this board. (wc in moderator mode)





If one is pointing out a particular bible quote, giving one's understanding and critiquing current Christian understanding, would it still be considered as proselytizing and sent back here? 


just wonderin' ......


 


 

Today the one overriding need is unity and harmony among the beloved of the Lord, for they should have among them but one heart and soul and should, so far as in them lieth, unitedly withstand the hostility of all the peoples of the world ... (Baha'i Writings)
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3 years ago  ::  Mar 07, 2012 - 12:56PM #6
Ironhold
Posts: 11,514

Mar 7, 2012 -- 11:22AM, world citizen wrote:


Often when a member of a close-knit family changes their religion from the family's  traditional faith, it can create an unhealthy atmosphere and literally break up a family.



Hence why Jesus said that the word of the Lord would be as a sword and would render families asunder.


I had a friend (now deceased) whose mother almost divorced her father when he left Judaism. One of her sons followed suit of his grandfather, becoming a Baha'i, and she became distrought. When she herself a few years later also left Judaism for the Baha'i Faith, her husband almost divorced her. It can be a major test for many households. I doubt it was much different for those who left Judaism to follow Christ 2000 years ago.



Go to any Mormon congregation, and you'll hear horror stories of what happened to people when they decided to leave their then-present faith tradition in order to become Mormon. In fact, a large part of the reason why so many Mormons seem standoffish towards mainline Christians is because of the poor treatment shown by the latter.


For example, church president Heber J. Grant's mother was left a poor widow when his father took ill and died suddenly.


To quote his own words on the matter,:


This devotion and sacrifice made a lasting impression on Heber, who later recalled:


“My mother’s brothers who were well-to-do financially offered to settle an annuity upon her for life if she would renounce her religion. One of her brothers said to her: ‘Rachel, you have disgraced the name of Ivins. We never want to see you again if you stay with those awful Mormons,’—this was when she was leaving for Utah—‘but,’ he continued, ‘come back in a year, come back in five years, come back in ten or twenty years, and no matter when you come back, the latchstring will be out, and affluence and ease will be your portion.’



So yeah - even though she was a poor widow with a young boy to take care of, his mother's family refused to lift a finger to help her out because they didn't like the fact that she was Mormon.

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 07, 2012 - 1:12PM #7
Lilwabbit
Posts: 2,895

Mar 7, 2012 -- 11:22AM, world citizen wrote:


LilWabbit ~


I've had a number of talks with a local Baptist minister (who happens to be a neighbor), and he assures me that I'm wrong in my thinking because Christ will return in the same place from where He ascended and that all eyes will see Him when He comes down "with the clouds."  And as he's speaking I'm thinking to myself, "They're the 'clouds' of which He spoke!"  This must be one of the reasons why Baha'u'llah warned:  "Let thine abode be under the stone, but seek not the shelter of the cleric."  So many warnings and clues in the NT but all others ignored by a cleric who, one would think, should know his Bible intimately.



I like the way you defined the true "clouds" upon which a Manifestation of God appears. They've always been the clerics.


What would house broken up refer too?



Seefan, I understand the "house" to mean the "world". Jesus will return to the world silently like a "burglar" or a "thief" that enters a house. Similarly, like the "burglar" will leave the house unnoticed by the "master", Jesus will be missed by the bulk of the world's inhabitants. Except for those few who "kept watch". Or like Shoghi Effendi titled his signature book about the life of Bahá'u'lláh: "God Passes By".


Kind regards,


LilWabbit

"All things have I willed for you, and you too, for your own sake."
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3 years ago  ::  Mar 07, 2012 - 8:35PM #8
IDBC
Posts: 4,500

Howdy Buddy


The question asked is


"Has Christ returned as an Iranian Inmate?"


One answer to the question is Yes, if you are a Bahia. 


Another answer to the question is No, if you are not a Bahia.  


Another question could be asked:  


"Has the  5th Buddha Maitreya appeared as an Iranian Imate?"


One answer to the question is Yes, if you are a Bahia.


Another answer to the question is No, if you are not a Bahia.


 


Mar 6, 2012 -- 1:55PM, Lilwabbit wrote:


Huh?

With the estimated following of about 7,8 million adherents, Bahá'u'lláh (1817-1892), the prophet-founder of the Bahá'í Faith, is thus far the most successful claimant of being the Second Coming of Christ.



All that proves, if true is that Mírzá Ḥusayn-`Alí Núrí was the most successful person who claimed to be the Second Coming of Isa bin Marium.....thus far.  


It can also be said that thus far Mírzá Ḥusayn-`Alí Núrí is the most successful person who claimed to be the   5th Buddha Maitreya.....thus far. 
  
Is this a story of just another cult leader, a delusional lunatic, or actually someone to be taken seriously?



Mar 6, 2012 -- 1:55PM, Lilwabbit wrote:


But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect. (NKJV, Matt. 24:43-44)


And yet there are people who still are not able to discern that


The thief came and left. The world missed it.


Feel free to debate the radical claim of Bahá'u'lláh on this thread.



    




Well I will not debate the claim that Mírzá Ḥusayn-`Alí Núrí is the second coming of Yeshua ben  Marium is a "radical" claim. 


Nor would I debate that the Bahia Faith Community sincerly agrees with the claim that Mírzá Ḥusayn-`Alí Núrí is the second coming of Yeshua ben Allah.   


I am very, very, very certain that every single Bahia in this forum and thread would answer "YES" to the question "Was an Iranian inmate named Mírzá Ḥusayn-`Alí Núrí the Second Coming of Jesus The Christ.  


However I am very, very certain that you will not be able to convince a Non-Bahia, especially a Christian Non-Bahia that Mírzá Ḥusayn-`Alí Núrí is the Second Coming of Yeshua ben Allah.  


So the questions that occur to me is why pose the question in the first place? 


And why is it that you will probably not be able to convince Non-Bahia, especially Christian Non-Bahia that Mírzá Ḥusayn-`Alí Núrí is the Second Coming Jesus The Christ? 


To answer my first question I can't even make a guess.  


To answer my second questions I can make several guesses. 


It could be because Non-Bahia are lacking in spiritual and or intellectual discernment.   


It could also be because Non-Bahia have been so strongly socialized and indoctrinated in the faith of their family and community that they are unable to see....the truth.  


It could also be a combination of the reasons I gave plus other reasons.  


The questions that also occurs to me is why is it important that people agree with the claim made by Mírzá Ḥusayn-`Alí Núrí that he is the Second Coming of Christ.  


Is it...inevitable that sometime in the future that all or at least a majority of human beings will accept the claims made by Mírzá Ḥusayn-`Alí Núrí that he is the Second Coming of Christ?  


  


HAVE A THINKING DAY MAY REASON GUIDE YOU
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3 years ago  ::  Mar 07, 2012 - 11:59PM #9
Lilwabbit
Posts: 2,895

Howdy Buddy,


Mar 7, 2012 -- 8:35PM, IDBC wrote:


All that proves, if true is that Mírzá Ḥusayn-`Alí Núrí was the most successful person who claimed to be the Second Coming of Isa bin Marium.....thus far.  


It can also be said that thus far Mírzá Ḥusayn-`Alí Núrí is the most successful person who claimed to be the   5th Buddha Maitreya.....thus far.



Indeed.  
  

Mar 7, 2012 -- 8:35PM, IDBC wrote:

And why is it that you will probably not be able to convince Non-Bahia, especially Christian Non-Bahia that Mírzá Ḥusayn-`Alí Núrí is the Second Coming Jesus The Christ?



Not able to? Not true. My wife was a very strong Charismatic Christian before becoming a Bahá'í (I daresay "strong" Bahá'í, biased though I am). The Bahá'í Faith "bewitched" her. Wink Most devout Christians obviously will never even consider Bahá'u'lláh due to the very name of "Bahá'u'lláh" let alone the non-literalistic way in which he fulfilled the prophecies. (While at the same time explaining to the Jews that Christ fulfilled non-literally the prophecies concerning the Messiah.)


Mar 7, 2012 -- 8:35PM, IDBC wrote:

The questions that also occurs to me is why is it important that people agree with the claim made by Mírzá Ḥusayn-`Alí Núrí that he is the Second Coming of Christ.



Because if he really was, he of all people might be able to usher in an era of peace and unity in the world. Isn't that what we all want?  


Is it...inevitable that sometime in the future that all or at least a majority of human beings will accept the claims made by Mírzá Ḥusayn-`Alí Núrí that he is the Second Coming of Christ?


  


Yes. We believe so. But we believe it will take many centuries and also a lot of self-inflicted bloodshed by mankind.


"When victory arriveth, every man shall profess himself as believer and shall hasten to the shelter of God’s Faith. Happy are they who in the days of world-encompassing trials have stood fast in the Cause and refused to swerve from its truth." (Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá'u'lláh, CL, p. 318)


One of the reasons we believe so is not only the fact that we have faith in the above promise of victory given to a tiny band of Bahá'ís, but that the essential teachings of the Bahá'í Faith really speak to all people from all walks of life:


"Shut your eyes to estrangement, then fix your gaze upon unity. Cleave tenaciously unto that which will lead to the well-being and tranquillity of all mankind. This span of earth is but one homeland and one habitation. It behoveth you to abandon vainglory which causeth alienation and to set your hearts on whatever will ensure harmony. In the estimation of the people of Bahá man’s glory lieth in his knowledge, his upright conduct, his praiseworthy character, his wisdom, and not in his nationality or rank. O people of the earth! Appreciate the value of this heavenly word." (Tablets of Bahá’u’lláh, Kalimat-i-Firdawsiyyih, p. 68)


The Bahá'ís have collaborated with like-minded social movements (including atheist movements) for over a century. What perhaps distinguishes us from these social movements pursuing similar goals is that our conviction is religious and hence more uncompromising. It also predates and outlasts many similar social movements and we are glad to offer them ideas to learn from and apply in their own secular way. We are also convinced that the vision of a better world offered by Bahá'u'lláh is deeper, more all-embracing and more sustainable. We are very aware that we are still small and generally unnoticed by the world. As to our unwillingness to give up and compromise on the above aspirations, however, we are ever-inspired by Bahá'u'lláh's words of caution:


"Say: O people of God! Beware lest the powers of the earth alarm you, or the might of the nations weaken you, or the tumult of the people of discord deter you, or the exponents of earthly glory sadden you. Be ye as a mountain in the Cause of your Lord, the Almighty, the All-Glorious, the Unconstrained." (Cited in "The Advent of Divine Justice", p. 82)


Due to the above universal appeal of his teachings, Bahá'u'lláh writes:


"O ye that judge with fairness! If this Cause is to be denied then what other cause in this world can be vindicated or deemed worthy of acceptance?" (Tablets of Bahá’u’lláh, Ishráqát, p. 131)


I have a feeling that there's a lot that unites us, IDBC. I believe if there weren't the God aspect, the gay marriage aspect and the House membership issue, you would have already joined our ranks and made a great champion of the Cause. Wink


With kind regards,


LilWabbit

"All things have I willed for you, and you too, for your own sake."
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3 years ago  ::  Mar 08, 2012 - 9:53AM #10
Seefan
Posts: 3,954

Mar 7, 2012 -- 1:12PM, Lilwabbit wrote:


What would house broken up refer too?


Seefan, I understand the "house" to mean the "world". Jesus will return to the world silently like a "burglar" or a "thief" that enters a house. Similarly, like the "burglar" will leave the house unnoticed by the "master", Jesus will be missed by the bulk of the world's inhabitants. Except for those few who "kept watch". Or like Shoghi Effendi titled his signature book about the life of Bahá'u'lláh: "God Passes By".


Kind regards, LilWabbit 




Yes LilWabbit, I think this one word is layered with more than one meaning, as you and WC pointed out, and not excluding both the religious and secular paths within the world.  It seems so many are looking for what is 'missing'!  Ever notice that sometimes what is missing is right in front of you.  As "God passes by' indeed ...


 


 

Today the one overriding need is unity and harmony among the beloved of the Lord, for they should have among them but one heart and soul and should, so far as in them lieth, unitedly withstand the hostility of all the peoples of the world ... (Baha'i Writings)
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