Post Reply
Switch to Forum Live View Archbishop Martin of Dublin on 60 Minutes
2 years ago  ::  Mar 05, 2012 - 1:38PM #1
WaveringCC
Posts: 5,116
I find it hard to even read this stuff anymore.  I will never get those Catholics who just brush it all aside and say "obey the bishops" and give your money anyway.  If there were more bishops like Martin, but he's one of the rare exceptions and he's never going to get a red hat. But, that's OK - he has his integrity and that's worth far more.

www.cbsnews.com/8301-18560_162-57390125/...

Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Mar 05, 2012 - 3:05PM #2
jane2
Posts: 14,287

Mar 5, 2012 -- 1:38PM, WaveringCC wrote:

I find it hard to even read this stuff anymore.  I will never get those Catholics who just brush it all aside and say "obey the bishops" and give your money anyway.  If there were more bishops like Martin, but he's one of the rare exceptions and he's never going to get a red hat. But, that's OK - he has his integrity and that's worth far more.

www.cbsnews.com/8301-18560_162-57390125/...



No


This is what we hear from those who get the red hat :

www.ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/advice-laity-new-cardinal


 

discuss catholicism
Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Mar 05, 2012 - 3:28PM #3
mokantx
Posts: 3,813

Mar 5, 2012 -- 1:38PM, WaveringCC wrote:

I find it hard to even read this stuff anymore.  I will never get those Catholics who just brush it all aside and say "obey the bishops" and give your money anyway.  If there were more bishops like Martin, but he's one of the rare exceptions and he's never going to get a red hat. But, that's OK - he has his integrity and that's worth far more.

www.cbsnews.com/8301-18560_162-57390125/...



Wav


Martin would be my vote for the next pope.  Sadly, I can only think of a very small handful of others who I think might be decent candidates.  Of course, I'm severely biased, in that I kind of think what is needed in that job is a compassionate pastor, not somebody with an agenda related to orthodoxy, or a legacy to build...

Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Mar 05, 2012 - 5:20PM #4
jane2
Posts: 14,287

Mo


I find it interesting that American bishops, by and large, haven't hopped on Archbishop Martin's bandwagon. Instead they are out fighting ObamaCare. They are shills for the Republicans which makes no sense at all to me.


I did notice that you declined to comment on the NCR article today about Dolan. I know he is in your larger family circle, but Dolan is making me crazy about nothing. He doesn't use Limbaugh's nasty language but they are on the same team.


 

discuss catholicism
Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Mar 05, 2012 - 5:53PM #5
mokantx
Posts: 3,813

Mar 5, 2012 -- 5:20PM, jane2 wrote:


Mo


I find it interesting that American bishops, by and large, haven't hopped on Archbishop Martin's bandwagon. Instead they are out fighting ObamaCare. They are shills for the Republicans which makes no sense at all to me.


I did notice that you declined to comment on the NCR article today about Dolan. I know he is in your larger family circle, but Dolan is making me crazy about nothing. He doesn't use Limbaugh's nasty language but they are on the same team.




Jane


I'm trying to give Dolan some time to find his voice in his new role.  But I have to say, it's pretty disheartening. I tend to agree with the bloggers post you linked us to. 


Quite frankly, this is looking and sounding more and more like a game to me.  In lieu of balding men in funny robes (or whatever it was that Dolan said), they now think they are more effective when they are fronted by attractive young women?  He's kidding, right?  right? 


I don't like his approach on that point one bit.  But this seems to be the modern version of "whack a mole" we see from the bishops?  It feels so passive/aggressive to me, so "hide the ball," all designed to keep everybody off balance.



What I'd LIKE to see in the bishops are men who need not be great orators, but who are clear in the way they talk and what they say.  They should be men of great integrity, and one really good way to show that kind of integrity is to quickly admit your errors, and to go beyond the minimum to fix the things you messed up.  We're just not seeing that anymore from the top. 


And that tells me that the structure won't last long in its current state.  People will (are) walk away.  That's not seemed to bother the bishops to this point. But when the PRESS gets bored, and begins to walk away, now THAT will get their attention.   Somewhere in all of that, I think something has been stood on its head...



I like Martin, because he seems to be one of the precious few who understands that there are some kinds of sin, some kinds of errors and omissions, that cannot be corrected with a press conference and perhaps a single liturgy.  He seems to understand what's at stake, and to have the courage (sadly, he seems to be about the ONLY one of them with the courage) to stand up and tell it like it is.  I think you could take the rest of the life of EVERY living bishop, and focus those lives on trying to make this right, and MAYBE you'd slow the bleeding, and start restoring the faith.  But the longer these guys insist on living in that twilight zone of dual standards, mixed messages, and perplexing legal moves, it's gonna be pretty hard to see much of the Carpenter from Galilee in the church's leadership. 


mo


Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Mar 05, 2012 - 6:04PM #6
jane2
Posts: 14,287

Mar 5, 2012 -- 5:53PM, mokantx wrote:


Mar 5, 2012 -- 5:20PM, jane2 wrote:


Mo


I find it interesting that American bishops, by and large, haven't hopped on Archbishop Martin's bandwagon. Instead they are out fighting ObamaCare. They are shills for the Republicans which makes no sense at all to me.


I did notice that you declined to comment on the NCR article today about Dolan. I know he is in your larger family circle, but Dolan is making me crazy about nothing. He doesn't use Limbaugh's nasty language but they are on the same team.




Jane


I'm trying to give Dolan some time to find his voice in his new role.  But I have to say, it's pretty disheartening. I tend to agree with the bloggers post you linked us to. 


Quite frankly, this is looking and sounding more and more like a game to me.  In lieu of balding men in funny robes (or whatever it was that Dolan said), they now think they are more effective when they are fronted by attractive young women?  He's kidding, right?  right? 


I don't like his approach on that point one bit.  But this seems to be the modern version of "whack a mole" we see from the bishops?  It feels so passive/aggressive to me, so "hide the ball," all designed to keep everybody off balance.



What I'd LIKE to see in the bishops are men who need not be great orators, but who are clear in the way they talk and what they say.  They should be men of great integrity, and one really good way to show that kind of integrity is to quickly admit your errors, and to go beyond the minimum to fix the things you messed up.  We're just not seeing that anymore from the top. 


And that tells me that the structure won't last long in its current state.  People will (are) walk away.  That's not seemed to bother the bishops to this point. But when the PRESS gets bored, and begins to walk away, now THAT will get their attention.   Somewhere in all of that, I think something has been stood on its head...



I like Martin, because he seems to be one of the precious few who understands that there are some kinds of sin, some kinds of errors and omissions, that cannot be corrected with a press conference and perhaps a single liturgy.  He seems to understand what's at stake, and to have the courage (sadly, he seems to be about the ONLY one of them with the courage) to stand up and tell it like it is.  I think you could take the rest of the life of EVERY living bishop, and focus those lives on trying to make this right, and MAYBE you'd slow the bleeding, and start restoring the faith.  But the longer these guys insist on living in that twilight zone of dual standards, mixed messages, and perplexing legal moves, it's gonna be pretty hard to see much of the Carpenter from Galilee in the church's leadership. 


mo





Mo


Thank you for the reasoned and detailed reponse. I so agree with you about the message from the Carpenter from Galilee being lost. It is THAT message that speaks to us.


Jane




 

discuss catholicism
Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Mar 05, 2012 - 11:05PM #7
cherubino
Posts: 7,277
Quick Reply
Cancel
 
    Viewing this thread :: 0 registered and 1 guest
    No registered users viewing
    Advertisement

    Beliefnet On Facebook