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3 years ago  ::  Mar 04, 2012 - 3:11PM #91
57
Posts: 23,033

Mar 4, 2012 -- 3:04PM, Heretic_for_Christ wrote:


Mar 4, 2012 -- 12:23PM, 57 wrote:


Mar 4, 2012 -- 12:03PM, Heretic_for_Christ wrote:


Mar 4, 2012 -- 10:42AM, 57 wrote:


Once again...just how much is required? 




Matthew 5:20. "For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."


There is at least the implication of the converse, that IF one's righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, then one MAY enter the kingdom of heaven. And note that Jesus did not add, "...providing, of course, that you worship me."




It is great to know that the righteousness of Jesus Christ has been imputed to me.  You failed to realize, or mention that the only one who could do what Jesus said to do...was Jesus.  




I don't think so. Another thing Jesus did not add at the end of the statement from Matthew 5:20 is, "...but you sinners can't do that--only I can do it." Given his disdain for some of the temple leaders of his world, his challenge to be better than them does not seem insuperable. What would be insuperable is if that statement had been something entirely different: "For I tell you that unless your righteousness is perfect, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven." The fact that he sets an achievable rather than impossible goal is quite important, don't you think?




Who said he was presenting an achievable goal? 

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 04, 2012 - 3:15PM #92
Heretic_for_Christ
Posts: 5,488

Mar 4, 2012 -- 3:11PM, 57 wrote:


Who said he was presenting an achievable goal? 




Jesus' own words suggest it. You are imposing your own interpretation because your theology demands it, irrespective of what he is reported to have said here. 

I prayed for deliverance from the hard world of facts and logic to the happy land where fantasy and prejudice reign. But God spake unto me, saying, "No, keep telling the truth," and to that end afflicted me with severe Trenchant Mouth. So I'm sorry for making cutting remarks, but it's the will of God.
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3 years ago  ::  Mar 04, 2012 - 3:19PM #93
57
Posts: 23,033

Mar 4, 2012 -- 3:15PM, Heretic_for_Christ wrote:


Mar 4, 2012 -- 3:11PM, 57 wrote:


Who said he was presenting an achievable goal? 




Jesus' own words suggest it. You are imposing your own interpretation because your theology demands it, irrespective of what he is reported to have said here. 




OK, for the sake of the argument..let say He was.....you already failed.  Along with every other human that has lived or will ever live.

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 04, 2012 - 3:30PM #94
Heretic_for_Christ
Posts: 5,488

Mar 4, 2012 -- 3:19PM, 57 wrote:


Mar 4, 2012 -- 3:15PM, Heretic_for_Christ wrote:


Mar 4, 2012 -- 3:11PM, 57 wrote:


Who said he was presenting an achievable goal? 




Jesus' own words suggest it. You are imposing your own interpretation because your theology demands it, irrespective of what he is reported to have said here. 




OK, for the sake of the argument..let say He was.....you already failed.  Along with every other human that has lived or will ever live.




Really! Does that mean you have been spying on me and everyone else and you know that our lives are less righteous than that of the Pharisees and lawgivers? Or are you saying the Jesus regarded the Pharisees and lawgivers as the ultimate in human righteousness?

I prayed for deliverance from the hard world of facts and logic to the happy land where fantasy and prejudice reign. But God spake unto me, saying, "No, keep telling the truth," and to that end afflicted me with severe Trenchant Mouth. So I'm sorry for making cutting remarks, but it's the will of God.
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3 years ago  ::  Mar 04, 2012 - 3:39PM #95
57
Posts: 23,033

Mar 4, 2012 -- 3:30PM, Heretic_for_Christ wrote:


Mar 4, 2012 -- 3:19PM, 57 wrote:


Mar 4, 2012 -- 3:15PM, Heretic_for_Christ wrote:


Mar 4, 2012 -- 3:11PM, 57 wrote:


Who said he was presenting an achievable goal? 




Jesus' own words suggest it. You are imposing your own interpretation because your theology demands it, irrespective of what he is reported to have said here. 




OK, for the sake of the argument..let say He was.....you already failed.  Along with every other human that has lived or will ever live.




Really! Does that mean you have been spying on me and everyone else and you know that our lives are less righteous than that of the Pharisees and lawgivers? Or are you saying the Jesus regarded the Pharisees and lawgivers as the ultimate in human righteousness?




Spying on you????  Heck, all I have to do is read your post. 

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 04, 2012 - 4:02PM #96
Heretic_for_Christ
Posts: 5,488

Mar 4, 2012 -- 3:39PM, 57 wrote:


Spying on you????  Heck, all I have to do is read your post. 




Well, 57, ya got me! I guess I was foolish to think I could hide my wickedness from you. You just read my postings and knew right away that I am much worse than the Pharisees and lawgivers of Jesus' time.


Nothing gets by you.

I prayed for deliverance from the hard world of facts and logic to the happy land where fantasy and prejudice reign. But God spake unto me, saying, "No, keep telling the truth," and to that end afflicted me with severe Trenchant Mouth. So I'm sorry for making cutting remarks, but it's the will of God.
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3 years ago  ::  Mar 04, 2012 - 4:48PM #97
57
Posts: 23,033

Mar 4, 2012 -- 4:02PM, Heretic_for_Christ wrote:


Mar 4, 2012 -- 3:39PM, 57 wrote:


Spying on you????  Heck, all I have to do is read your post. 




Well, 57, ya got me! I guess I was foolish to think I could hide my wickedness from you. You just read my postings and knew right away that I am much worse than the Pharisees and lawgivers of Jesus' time.


Nothing gets by you.




I'm just as bad if not worse.   The problem for you is that you have completely missed the point.

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 05, 2012 - 11:26AM #98
lope
Posts: 11,569

Mar 4, 2012 -- 3:19PM, 57 wrote:


Mar 4, 2012 -- 3:15PM, Heretic_for_Christ wrote:


Mar 4, 2012 -- 3:11PM, 57 wrote:


Who said he was presenting an achievable goal? 




Jesus' own words suggest it. You are imposing your own interpretation because your theology demands it, irrespective of what he is reported to have said here. 




OK, for the sake of the argument..let say He was.....you already failed.  Along with every other human that has lived or will ever live.




The Bible says Job was a righteous man.

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 05, 2012 - 11:28AM #99
lope
Posts: 11,569

Mar 4, 2012 -- 12:23PM, 57 wrote:


Mar 4, 2012 -- 12:03PM, Heretic_for_Christ wrote:


Mar 4, 2012 -- 10:42AM, 57 wrote:


Feb 27, 2012 -- 7:14PM, dio wrote:


In a nutshell we humans have a portion of responsibility for our salvation. God does most of the saving but each of us has a small percentage  responsibility for our salvation. To God it's only a little bit but to us it seems so huge that we can't possibly do it. Turn the other cheek go the extra mile give away your cloak be a good samaritan.




Once again...just how much is required? 




Matthew 5:20. "For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."


There is at least the implication of the converse, that IF one's righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, then one MAY enter the kingdom of heaven. And note that Jesus did not add, "...providing, of course, that you worship me."




It is great to know that the righteousness of Jesus Christ has been imputed to me.  You failed to realize, or mention that the only one who could do what Jesus said to do...was Jesus.  




Jesus said to love others.  The Good Samaritan was able to do that.  The sheep in Matt 25:31 and following were able to do that.

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 05, 2012 - 4:45PM #100
Lookbeyond
Posts: 578

How much is enough? Matt. 7:13-14  Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat; 14. Because, strait is the gate and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life,and few there be that find it.  Verse: 21-23 "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."...........23. And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you; depart from me, ye that work iniquity.......24-29... For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.


Acts 3: 19-21    Repent and be converted.....


John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God........Baptism is an essential ordinance! and receiving the Gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands by those in authority! Acts 8:14-23.....authority cannot be purchased ans Simon thought it could be!


Could there be a connection with verses 21-23 as to why the Lord would say unto the believers, "I never knew you; depart from me, ye that work iniquity?


Are the Evangelical preachers and others of the day teaching and preaching the Word of God, with authority from God? Or have they acquired it by purchase? Schooling etc.???


Faith, repentance, baptism and receiving the Gift of the Holy Ghost was preached by the Savior and the Apostles whom he gave power and authority to do so! Keeping the commandments and enduring to the end faithfully in our trust in God and in the redeeming atonement of the Savior, even Jesus Christ, the Son of God.....and because God has life within himself, and he gave likewise this same life to his Son, He was able to lay down his life for the sins of the world. No one took His life from Him!  John 10:1-18....No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

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