Mar 17, 2012 -- 10:14AM, Newtonian wrote:

Ed2 - Ok, which is it - do you want a lengthy answer covering all the anatomical details you posted on - or a simple answer which I gave?   You can't have it both ways!

I was responding briefly - I will now respond to one of your examples - since I am sick today, I can respond to others - please specify which have priority for you.

Spiders silk.   As an animal lover I have observed both the predatory (which I try to stop). . .

Schreeeech! Stop! Hold on! Stop the presses!

Now are you saying that you literally try to stop spiders from catching their prey and providing food for themselves? Really????

Mar 17, 2012 -- 10:14AM, Newtonian wrote:

and peaceful behavior of various spiders.   In the case of silk, I have noted two important peaceful functions.   Just yesterday we had fog here in SE Louisiana - fog and mist were likely a major if not exclusive means of watering on the pre-flood earth.   And we had literally thousands of spider webs spring up overnight.   They were not filled with caught insects!   They collected the dew!

In fact, they were covered with dew on every strand!   As a means for collecting water these webs were extremely efficient.

So what are you saying, Newtonian? That the spider's intricate web spinning abilities were actually designed for spiders to live on a water diet?

Most spiders do drink or require a regular daily amount of water.  In the wild, most spiders will drink from any available source such as droplets on vegetation or the ground or from early morning dew that has gathered upon their webs.  If a spider is kept in captivity it is good to provide them with a fresh water source such as in a small bottle cap or a damp sponge for smaller species, and a small dish for larger species.

It is a myth that spiders live in drains.  When you find a spider in a building or in the shower, it is usually because it’s a good source of water for them and then they typically remain trapped because the sides are too slippery or steep for them to climb back out.

Depending on the species, different spiders may use different methods to quench their thirst.  The whistling spider which resides in the desert, covers its burrow with a thin layer of silk to keep it humid and dew or raindrops are captured using a silk covered mound near the entrance.  Some species of spiders ingest nectar, while others quench their thirst by drinking dew drops in early morning.

A common practice for many species of spiders to follow as a way to get their regular intake of water is to consume their spider web first thing every morning.  By doing this they consume water that has condensed as droplets onto the web.  Other spiders may use their pincers to take water from their webs and place it into their mouths.

While, spiders such as the black widow and the red back do not drink water at all.  Instead they get all of the fluid that they require by sucking the juices from their prey.

www.animalquestions.org/invertebrates/sp...

Uh-oh. It looks your water-web theory doesn't apply to the black widow and the red back spiders. Unless of course Satan changed these spiders so that they stopped drinking water.

Mar 17, 2012 -- 10:14AM, Newtonian wrote:

Also, spiders don't fly.   But they might as well fly!   They use their silk to dangle from high tree branches - going up and down the strand as they wish, and the breeze carries them quite a distance - much like flying!   Another peaceful use of spider silk. 

One should not fault the designer if his designs are used for a violent end - that is as much true for Jehovah and spider silk as it is for Vector and their super sharp knives!   Both were designed for a peaceful use.

Actually, Newtonian, it looks like you are the one who is attributing a bad connotation for the natural violence that can be found in nature to the Biblical deity called Jehovah. I think that everyone else is okay with the violence.

Mar 17, 2012 -- 12:01PM, Goodtobehomestill wrote:

I interfere with predation too, if I see it going on.  I think it is a natural instinct, at least for me it seems to be.  If you see a cat about to pounce on a bird, do you just sit there or scare off the bird or the cat?   So why not do the same for insects?  It's not like they aren't going to catch their flies or whatever later, but I don't have to watch.

Indeed, goodtobehome!   In fact that is one reason I switch some nature programs off.  They actually film one animal killing another - disgusting!  

How far we go is a matter of conscience in our religion, of course.

I go further than most, though.   If I see a butterfly caught in a spiders web, I will release it. 

Once when I was driving in my landscaping truck on Long Island, a yellow jacket (insect) flew into my cup of juice and drowned quickly.   I pulled over and got the yellow jacket out of the juice but it wasn't moving.   So I brought it outside on my truck hood and used a pencil - eraser side - and pushed in and out on its abdomen - gradually it began to move and to breathe on its own - eventually if fully recovered and flew off!

I doubt many others have given artificial respiration to an insect!

Yes, it made me late on my landscaping schedule.   But I can't stop it all - we really need God's Kingdom!

To me that yellow jacket had made a better choice, as some choose to kill while it chose fruit juice - I couldn't simply ignore its plight - but that's my personal conscience.

I think it all boils down to the fact that God is love, and violence is not loving.

I don't go as far as the Jains in India who sweep their path so they avoid stepping on insects - I simply try to avoid stepping on them.  

Of course, how far we go is a matter of conscience - but hunting for sport is definitely bad in our religion.

Mar 17, 2012 -- 12:01PM, Goodtobehomestill wrote:

I interfere with predation too, if I see it going on.  I think it is a natural instinct, at least for me it seems to be.  If you see a cat about to pounce on a bird, do you just sit there or scare off the bird or the cat?   So why not do the same for insects?  It's not like they aren't going to catch their flies or whatever later, but I don't have to watch.

Except you will gladly eat a chicken drumstick (I assume you're not vegetarian).....

Humans are the worst predators on the planet.

RE to what GTBHS and Newtonian said in post 122 and 123: I'm sorry to say this, but both of you sound religiously fanatical.

Also, in post #123, Newtonian said:

Mar 17, 2012 -- 2:06PM, Newtonian wrote:

Indeed, goodtobehome!   In fact that is one reason I switch some nature programs off.  They actually film one animal killing another - disgusting!  

How far we go is a matter of conscience in our religion, of course.

I go further than most, though.   If I see a butterfly caught in a spiders web, I will release it. 

Once when I was driving in my landscaping truck on Long Island, a yellow jacket (insect) flew into my cup of juice and drowned quickly.   I pulled over and got the yellow jacket out of the juice but it wasn't moving.   So I brought it outside on my truck hood and used a pencil - eraser side - and pushed in and out on its abdomen - gradually it began to move and to breathe on its own - eventually if fully recovered and flew off!

I doubt many others have given artificial respiration to an insect!

Yes, it made me late on my landscaping schedule.   But I can't stop it all - we really need God's Kingdom!

To me that yellow jacket had made a better choice, as some choose to kill while it chose fruit juice. . . 

Okay, I had the violins going and had the kleenex wiping the tears from my eyes  ....until I read your last sentence above.

So now you're saying that it's not Satan who manipulates the DNA of insects and animals and turns them into predators...but the insects and animals 'make a choice' as to whether they want to be herbivores or carnivores?

Wow! You religious fundamentalists are really starting to sound scary. 

Mar 17, 2012 -- 8:03PM, Ed2 wrote:

RE to what GTBHS and Newtonian said in post 122 and 123: I'm sorry to say this, but both of you sound religiously fanatical.

Also, in post #123, Newtonian said:

Mar 17, 2012 -- 2:06PM, Newtonian wrote:

Indeed, goodtobehome!   In fact that is one reason I switch some nature programs off.  They actually film one animal killing another - disgusting!  

How far we go is a matter of conscience in our religion, of course.

I go further than most, though.   If I see a butterfly caught in a spiders web, I will release it. 

Once when I was driving in my landscaping truck on Long Island, a yellow jacket (insect) flew into my cup of juice and drowned quickly.   I pulled over and got the yellow jacket out of the juice but it wasn't moving.   So I brought it outside on my truck hood and used a pencil - eraser side - and pushed in and out on its abdomen - gradually it began to move and to breathe on its own - eventually if fully recovered and flew off!

I doubt many others have given artificial respiration to an insect!

Yes, it made me late on my landscaping schedule.   But I can't stop it all - we really need God's Kingdom!

To me that yellow jacket had made a better choice, as some choose to kill while it chose fruit juice. . . 

Okay, I had the violins going and had the kleenex wiping the tears from my eyes  ....until I read your last sentence above.

So now you're saying that it's not Satan who manipulates the DNA of insects and animals and turns them into predators...but the insects and animals 'make a choice' as to whether they want to be herbivores or carnivores?

Wow! You religious fundamentalists are really starting to sound scary. 

Ed - Scary?  I was simply reporting my personal observations.   Yellow Jackets (similar to bees & wasps, etc.) can be carnivorous - or they can choose not to be.   I am sorry that scares you!

I have been camping eating peanut butter and jelly on the picnic table with other vegetarian delights - and along come all sorts of insects that might in a different setting choose to be carnivores - but in this setting just love landing on the vegetarian food and sharing our feast.

I am sorry - I didn't mean to scare you!

Btw, we had a cat that preferred brocoli to cat food - granted he was an unusual cat.   Truth can be stranger than fiction!