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2 years ago  ::  Mar 17, 2012 - 9:45PM #131
Newtonian
Posts: 11,229

Ed - Just to clarify - I am not a fundamentalist.


However, I am totally for the fundementals of picnicking and camping!

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2 years ago  ::  Mar 17, 2012 - 10:33PM #132
Ed2
Posts: 3,322

Mar 17, 2012 -- 9:37PM, Newtonian wrote:


Mar 17, 2012 -- 8:03PM, Ed2 wrote:


RE to what GTBHS and Newtonian said in post 122 and 123: I'm sorry to say this, but both of you sound religiously fanatical.


Also, in post #123, Newtonian said:


Mar 17, 2012 -- 2:06PM, Newtonian wrote:


Indeed, goodtobehome!   In fact that is one reason I switch some nature programs off.  They actually film one animal killing another - disgusting!  


How far we go is a matter of conscience in our religion, of course.


I go further than most, though.   If I see a butterfly caught in a spiders web, I will release it. 


Once when I was driving in my landscaping truck on Long Island, a yellow jacket (insect) flew into my cup of juice and drowned quickly.   I pulled over and got the yellow jacket out of the juice but it wasn't moving.   So I brought it outside on my truck hood and used a pencil - eraser side - and pushed in and out on its abdomen - gradually it began to move and to breathe on its own - eventually if fully recovered and flew off!


I doubt many others have given artificial respiration to an insect!


Yes, it made me late on my landscaping schedule.   But I can't stop it all - we really need God's Kingdom!


To me that yellow jacket had made a better choice, as some choose to kill while it chose fruit juice. . . 




Okay, I had the violins going and had the kleenex wiping the tears from my eyes Wink ....until I read your last sentence above.


So now you're saying that it's not Satan who manipulates the DNA of insects and animals and turns them into predators...but the insects and animals 'make a choice' as to whether they want to be herbivores or carnivores?


Wow! You religious fundamentalists are really starting to sound scary. 





Ed - Scary?  I was simply reporting my personal observations.   Yellow Jackets (similar to bees & wasps, etc.) can be carnivorous - or they can choose not to be.   I am sorry that scares you!


I have been camping eating peanut butter and jelly on the picnic table with other vegetarian delights - and along come all sorts of insects that might in a different setting choose to be carnivores - but in this setting just love landing on the vegetarian food and sharing our feast.




Mm-hm.


I think that it's pretty sad and pretty unbelievable that there are so many healthy, powerful, and healing foods that I have learned about from watching "The Doctor Oz Show"...but unfortunately, most Americans from their childhood on up, have only learned how to eat what is essentially equivalent to 'garbage'...and are basically in a 'slumber' when it comes to not having a clue as to what that kind of food is doing to their bodies and to their health. It's really sad.

~Ed2

"Hmmm. So you're saying that for Jesus' followers(throughout the centuries) to truly live a 'godly' life, they had to believe that the end of the world was just around the corner?"

~Ed2(See post #53)

"Although, I think that I'll change that to: Also...I liked the way that you dodged what I had said about being 'concerned that the Bible had to use subterfuge as a means to an end' in my post #137."

~Ed2(See post #145)

"It's utterly beyond belief, that the wealthiest country in the history of the world, fails to care for all it's people."

~Dr. Patrick Dowling, MD(From The Doctor Oz Show, which aired on 11/23/11.)

"If I could prescribe any drug on the planet, it would be food [be]cause it works better, faster, and cheaper than any medication. Food is the most powerful medicine we have...to treat chronic disease like diabetes."

~Dr. Mark Hyman, MD(From The Doctor Oz Show, which aired on 01/13/12. Also, go to www.doctoroz.com for more information.)
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2 years ago  ::  Mar 17, 2012 - 10:40PM #133
Ed2
Posts: 3,322

Mar 17, 2012 -- 9:45PM, Newtonian wrote:


Ed - Just to clarify - I am not a fundamentalist.




If you say so, Newtonian:


fundamentalist


A usually religious movement or point of view characterized by a return to fundamental principles, by rigid adherence to those principles, and often by intolerance of other views and opposition to secularism.


I think that it's pretty sad and pretty unbelievable that there are so many healthy, powerful, and healing foods that I have learned about from watching "The Doctor Oz Show"...but unfortunately, most Americans from their childhood on up, have only learned how to eat what is essentially equivalent to 'garbage'...and are basically in a 'slumber' when it comes to not having a clue as to what that kind of food is doing to their bodies and to their health. It's really sad.

~Ed2

"Hmmm. So you're saying that for Jesus' followers(throughout the centuries) to truly live a 'godly' life, they had to believe that the end of the world was just around the corner?"

~Ed2(See post #53)

"Although, I think that I'll change that to: Also...I liked the way that you dodged what I had said about being 'concerned that the Bible had to use subterfuge as a means to an end' in my post #137."

~Ed2(See post #145)

"It's utterly beyond belief, that the wealthiest country in the history of the world, fails to care for all it's people."

~Dr. Patrick Dowling, MD(From The Doctor Oz Show, which aired on 11/23/11.)

"If I could prescribe any drug on the planet, it would be food [be]cause it works better, faster, and cheaper than any medication. Food is the most powerful medicine we have...to treat chronic disease like diabetes."

~Dr. Mark Hyman, MD(From The Doctor Oz Show, which aired on 01/13/12. Also, go to www.doctoroz.com for more information.)
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2 years ago  ::  Mar 17, 2012 - 11:17PM #134
Ed2
Posts: 3,322

Mar 17, 2012 -- 3:15PM, Goodtobehomestill wrote:


I'm more interested in knowing what I am supposed to do. .  . 




Which is starting to seem more and more like what the Bible's real purpose is:


community.beliefnet.com/go/thread/view/4... (post #70)


which is to cause people to follow a certain mode of behavior that is considered to be righteous and holy.

I think that it's pretty sad and pretty unbelievable that there are so many healthy, powerful, and healing foods that I have learned about from watching "The Doctor Oz Show"...but unfortunately, most Americans from their childhood on up, have only learned how to eat what is essentially equivalent to 'garbage'...and are basically in a 'slumber' when it comes to not having a clue as to what that kind of food is doing to their bodies and to their health. It's really sad.

~Ed2

"Hmmm. So you're saying that for Jesus' followers(throughout the centuries) to truly live a 'godly' life, they had to believe that the end of the world was just around the corner?"

~Ed2(See post #53)

"Although, I think that I'll change that to: Also...I liked the way that you dodged what I had said about being 'concerned that the Bible had to use subterfuge as a means to an end' in my post #137."

~Ed2(See post #145)

"It's utterly beyond belief, that the wealthiest country in the history of the world, fails to care for all it's people."

~Dr. Patrick Dowling, MD(From The Doctor Oz Show, which aired on 11/23/11.)

"If I could prescribe any drug on the planet, it would be food [be]cause it works better, faster, and cheaper than any medication. Food is the most powerful medicine we have...to treat chronic disease like diabetes."

~Dr. Mark Hyman, MD(From The Doctor Oz Show, which aired on 01/13/12. Also, go to www.doctoroz.com for more information.)
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2 years ago  ::  Mar 18, 2012 - 2:16PM #135
Goodtobehomestill
Posts: 6,583

Ed...if you see anything even remotely religious in post #123, that must really be the filter you are looking through.  That was just some of my personal thoughts on grubs, crickets, and cutting up 'eww' raw chicken!  ( I did get over that, eventually, btw, the cutting up, but I still would have to hide inside as I did as a girl when it was head-chopping time.)


Purpose of the Bible, in short, is to help us draw close to God.  Part of that is 'cleansing our hands' because God is holy.  Our attitude must be humble, as the tax collector's was, 'be gracious to me, a sinner' he prayed, and we must pray likewise, knowing only the atonement makes it possible.


(James 4:8) 8 Draw close to God, and he will draw close to YOU. Cleanse YOUR hands, YOU sinners, and purify YOUR hearts, YOU indecisive ones. . .


So yes, our 'mode of behavior' plays a huge role in this 'drawing close.'  However, the behavior God asks of us, is the behavior that will benefit us the most anyway. 



“People are not disturbed by things, but by the views they take of them.”
― Epictetus

Life is like photography, you need a clear lens, and the picture you get depends on what you focus on.


Anger stems from irrational beliefs about others, anxiety stems from irrational beliefs about yourself.---Spencer Lord, The Brain Mechanic
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2 years ago  ::  Mar 18, 2012 - 2:20PM #136
Goodtobehomestill
Posts: 6,583

Ed, our definition of 'fundamentalist' is basically this.


*** w74 10/15 p. 629 How Are Jehovah’s Witnesses Different? ***
But they are not “fundamentalists,” as that term is generally understood. They do not believe that everything in the Bible is to be taken literally.


This is why Newtonian rejected the label.

“People are not disturbed by things, but by the views they take of them.”
― Epictetus

Life is like photography, you need a clear lens, and the picture you get depends on what you focus on.


Anger stems from irrational beliefs about others, anxiety stems from irrational beliefs about yourself.---Spencer Lord, The Brain Mechanic
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2 years ago  ::  Mar 19, 2012 - 5:07AM #137
Ed2
Posts: 3,322

Mar 18, 2012 -- 2:16PM, Goodtobehomestill wrote:


Ed...if you see anything even remotely religious in post #123, that must really be the filter you are looking through.  That was just some of my personal thoughts on grubs, crickets, and cutting up 'eww' raw chicken!  ( I did get over that, eventually, btw, the cutting up, but I still would have to hide inside as I did as a girl when it was head-chopping time.)



Well, what you said was in post #122, however, this is what Newtonian said in post #123 in a conversation that included you(emphasis is mine):


Mar 17, 2012 -- 2:06PM, Newtonian wrote:


Mar 17, 2012 -- 12:01PM, Goodtobehomestill wrote:


I interfere with predation too, if I see it going on.  I think it is a natural instinct, at least for me it seems to be.  If you see a cat about to pounce on a bird, do you just sit there or scare off the bird or the cat?   So why not do the same for insects?  It's not like they aren't going to catch their flies or whatever later, but I don't have to watch.Wink



Indeed, goodtobehome!   In fact that is one reason I switch some nature programs off.  They actually film one animal killing another - disgusting!  


How far we go is a matter of conscience in our religion, of course.


I go further than most, though.   If I see a butterfly caught in a spiders web, I will release it. 


Once when I was driving in my landscaping truck on Long Island, a yellow jacket (insect) flew into my cup of juice and drowned quickly.   I pulled over and got the yellow jacket out of the juice but it wasn't moving.   So I brought it outside on my truck hood and used a pencil - eraser side - and pushed in and out on its abdomen - gradually it began to move and to breathe on its own - eventually if fully recovered and flew off!


I doubt many others have given artificial respiration to an insect!


Yes, it made me late on my landscaping schedule.   But I can't stop it all - we really need God's Kingdom!


To me that yellow jacket had made a better choice, as some choose to kill while it chose fruit juice - I couldn't simply ignore its plight - but that's my personal conscience.


I think it all boils down to the fact that God is love, and violence is not loving.


I don't go as far as the Jains in India who sweep their path so they avoid stepping on insects - I simply try to avoid stepping on them.  


Of course, how far we go is a matter of conscience - but hunting for sport is definitely bad in our religion.



Therefore, even though your comments about your behavior was not religiously related....Newtonian made it clear that his comments were.


Mar 18, 2012 -- 2:16PM, Goodtobehomestill wrote:


Purpose of the Bible, in short, is to help us draw close to God.  Part of that is 'cleansing our hands' because God is holy.  Our attitude must be humble, as the tax collector's was, 'be gracious to me, a sinner' he prayed, and we must pray likewise, knowing only the atonement makes it possible.


(James 4:8) 8 Draw close to God, and he will draw close to YOU. Cleanse YOUR hands, YOU sinners, and purify YOUR hearts, YOU indecisive ones. . .


So yes, our 'mode of behavior' plays a huge role in this 'drawing close.'  However, the behavior God asks of us, is the behavior that will benefit us the most anyway. 



But I thought the purpose of the Bible was about how God's Kingdom was suppose to rectify the evil that exists in the world today...and to restore earth to paradise conditions. Which is why I posted a link to post #70 in the 'Number 5:11-22' thread in my post #134. And the reason being is that in that thread, it looks like Christians throughout all the centuries have been led to believe that the 'Kingdom was near' and that the end of the world was nigh...which even you admitted was for the purpose of getting them to live as good Christians.


Therefore, what I have concern about in all this is that if God is the one who inspired men to write the words that are in the Bible, then I am concerned that God had to use subterfuge as a means to an end.


Also, in post #126, you said: "I'm more interested in knowing what I am supposed to do, than in what ate what in the Garden, or what will eat what in the Paradise." However, if one cannot find truth and scientific accuracy in 'Paradise' scriptures such as Isaiah 11:6-9 and Isaiah 65:25, then how can one rely upon the truthfulness of the Bible and/or the truthfulness of JWs' interpretation of the Bible?  

I think that it's pretty sad and pretty unbelievable that there are so many healthy, powerful, and healing foods that I have learned about from watching "The Doctor Oz Show"...but unfortunately, most Americans from their childhood on up, have only learned how to eat what is essentially equivalent to 'garbage'...and are basically in a 'slumber' when it comes to not having a clue as to what that kind of food is doing to their bodies and to their health. It's really sad.

~Ed2

"Hmmm. So you're saying that for Jesus' followers(throughout the centuries) to truly live a 'godly' life, they had to believe that the end of the world was just around the corner?"

~Ed2(See post #53)

"Although, I think that I'll change that to: Also...I liked the way that you dodged what I had said about being 'concerned that the Bible had to use subterfuge as a means to an end' in my post #137."

~Ed2(See post #145)

"It's utterly beyond belief, that the wealthiest country in the history of the world, fails to care for all it's people."

~Dr. Patrick Dowling, MD(From The Doctor Oz Show, which aired on 11/23/11.)

"If I could prescribe any drug on the planet, it would be food [be]cause it works better, faster, and cheaper than any medication. Food is the most powerful medicine we have...to treat chronic disease like diabetes."

~Dr. Mark Hyman, MD(From The Doctor Oz Show, which aired on 01/13/12. Also, go to www.doctoroz.com for more information.)
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2 years ago  ::  Mar 19, 2012 - 6:10PM #138
Goodtobehomestill
Posts: 6,583

But I thought the purpose of the Bible was about how God's Kingdom was suppose to rectify the evil that exists in the world today...and to restore earth to paradise conditions.---


Through the means of the atonement, which is the message of the reconciliation, which means restoring us to our proper relationship with God.  (Which is huge evidence for God's personality, how much effort he has gone through to reconcile with us!)


(2 Corinthians 5:19) . . .that God was by means of Christ reconciling a world to himself, not reckoning to them their trespasses, and he committed the word of the reconciliation to us.


truth and scientific accuracy in 'Paradise' scriptures such as Isaiah 11:6-9 and Isaiah 65:25,


will you reject the message on this basis, when the message is not for the purpose of a science lesson?





“People are not disturbed by things, but by the views they take of them.”
― Epictetus

Life is like photography, you need a clear lens, and the picture you get depends on what you focus on.


Anger stems from irrational beliefs about others, anxiety stems from irrational beliefs about yourself.---Spencer Lord, The Brain Mechanic
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2 years ago  ::  Mar 19, 2012 - 11:39PM #139
Ed2
Posts: 3,322

Mar 19, 2012 -- 6:10PM, Goodtobehomestill wrote:


But I thought the purpose of the Bible was about how God's Kingdom was suppose to rectify the evil that exists in the world today...and to restore earth to paradise conditions.---


Through the means of the atonement, which is the message of the reconciliation, which means restoring us to our proper relationship with God.  (Which is huge evidence for God's personality, how much effort he has gone through to reconcile with us!)


(2 Corinthians 5:19) . . .that God was by means of Christ reconciling a world to himself, not reckoning to them their trespasses, and he committed the word of the reconciliation to us.


truth and scientific accuracy in 'Paradise' scriptures such as Isaiah 11:6-9 and Isaiah 65:25,


will you reject the message on this basis, when the message is not for the purpose of a science lesson?




Hmmm. Well, as I had said in another thread, it nows seems as if the scienticfic accuracy of the Bible that many Christians and JWs(such as our own Newtonian) boast about to prove the authenticity of the Bible....just doesn't seem very important anymore.


Interesting.

I think that it's pretty sad and pretty unbelievable that there are so many healthy, powerful, and healing foods that I have learned about from watching "The Doctor Oz Show"...but unfortunately, most Americans from their childhood on up, have only learned how to eat what is essentially equivalent to 'garbage'...and are basically in a 'slumber' when it comes to not having a clue as to what that kind of food is doing to their bodies and to their health. It's really sad.

~Ed2

"Hmmm. So you're saying that for Jesus' followers(throughout the centuries) to truly live a 'godly' life, they had to believe that the end of the world was just around the corner?"

~Ed2(See post #53)

"Although, I think that I'll change that to: Also...I liked the way that you dodged what I had said about being 'concerned that the Bible had to use subterfuge as a means to an end' in my post #137."

~Ed2(See post #145)

"It's utterly beyond belief, that the wealthiest country in the history of the world, fails to care for all it's people."

~Dr. Patrick Dowling, MD(From The Doctor Oz Show, which aired on 11/23/11.)

"If I could prescribe any drug on the planet, it would be food [be]cause it works better, faster, and cheaper than any medication. Food is the most powerful medicine we have...to treat chronic disease like diabetes."

~Dr. Mark Hyman, MD(From The Doctor Oz Show, which aired on 01/13/12. Also, go to www.doctoroz.com for more information.)
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2 years ago  ::  Mar 19, 2012 - 11:44PM #140
Ed2
Posts: 3,322

Also, GTBSH, I liked the way that you dodged what I had said about being "concerned that God had to use subterfuge as a means to an end" in my post #137.

I think that it's pretty sad and pretty unbelievable that there are so many healthy, powerful, and healing foods that I have learned about from watching "The Doctor Oz Show"...but unfortunately, most Americans from their childhood on up, have only learned how to eat what is essentially equivalent to 'garbage'...and are basically in a 'slumber' when it comes to not having a clue as to what that kind of food is doing to their bodies and to their health. It's really sad.

~Ed2

"Hmmm. So you're saying that for Jesus' followers(throughout the centuries) to truly live a 'godly' life, they had to believe that the end of the world was just around the corner?"

~Ed2(See post #53)

"Although, I think that I'll change that to: Also...I liked the way that you dodged what I had said about being 'concerned that the Bible had to use subterfuge as a means to an end' in my post #137."

~Ed2(See post #145)

"It's utterly beyond belief, that the wealthiest country in the history of the world, fails to care for all it's people."

~Dr. Patrick Dowling, MD(From The Doctor Oz Show, which aired on 11/23/11.)

"If I could prescribe any drug on the planet, it would be food [be]cause it works better, faster, and cheaper than any medication. Food is the most powerful medicine we have...to treat chronic disease like diabetes."

~Dr. Mark Hyman, MD(From The Doctor Oz Show, which aired on 01/13/12. Also, go to www.doctoroz.com for more information.)
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