Feb 13, 2012 -- 9:11AM, bigbear6161 wrote:

Who was the Jesus of history and how does he differ from the Christ of faith? Can we get to him with historical analysis. Does the Historical Jesus matter? Was there an Historical Jesus? Was he purely a literary figure? A pure mythological figure? A revolutionary general? An Essene? A Pharisee? A Cynic? A long haired hippy freak? Pure spirit only appearing to be material? Who was this guy around which Christianity spins like vortex?

All we have is literature and the idea that we can read the gospels as if Jesus is historical by those that assume Jesus is historical, but that's circular. We can't know of any actual history because all we have is a story, a tall tale of mystical and supernatural elements that Christian theology rests upon. Christianity appears to revolve about the gospel story itself because of its religious appeal. Why people are determined that Jesus is historical and that the story necessarily explains Christian origins is puzzling.

Feb 13, 2012 -- 6:58PM, G.flower wrote:

Feb 13, 2012 -- 9:44AM, dio wrote:

We really don't know much, he was killed because some people thought he might be the messiah. What did he teach, I've gleened from the Gospels, he taught be compassionate,  purify your thinking, love each other, do no evil, do good, follow his example, find divinity within and without.

No, he was killed because of the time that he entered Jeruselem. It was Passover and the Romans beefed up their cohorts and were ready to squash any trouble and trouble makers at a moments notice. They didn't want to have to deal with riots or a war.

Unfortunately, Jesus would have been viewed by the Romans as one of the troublemakers and he (although there is no evidence of him) was quickly killed, most likely without all the rigamarole that is in the bible. That was the Roman way.

You are attempting to take a tall tale and turn it into something else. Why? Why the need to reinvent  a story in order to make it go down easy, so that it can be believed to be an actual event? It didn't happen the way it was written because the writing is fiction, rigamarole, and so you seem to have a need to suggest a way for it to have actually taken place. Why? Why can't the story remain as the fiction that it appears to be?

Feb 16, 2012 -- 12:41AM, Bob_the_Lunatic wrote:

Indeed, by that logic-Hercules/Heracules was real, and did indeed do those 12 great deeds, including slaying the hydra and holding the sky upon his shoulders to give poor atlus a rest.... all because some book says it did happen.

Hercules is just as real as Jesus, just more interesting and better looking... and the Greeks never denied that the god (Zeus/Jupiter) fornicated with his mother.

Yes, we could read stories of Hercules and Zues and replace the improbable with hypothetical scenerious in order to make them appear historical. Why not? If it can be applied to Jesus it can be applied to any figure found in literature.

Feb 16, 2012 -- 12:56AM, whatson2nd wrote:

Feb 13, 2012 -- 6:58PM, G.flower wrote:

Feb 13, 2012 -- 9:44AM, dio wrote:

We really don't know much, he was killed because some people thought he might be the messiah. What did he teach, I've gleened from the Gospels, he taught be compassionate,  purify your thinking, love each other, do no evil, do good, follow his example, find divinity within and without.

No, he was killed because of the time that he entered Jeruselem. It was Passover and the Romans beefed up their cohorts and were ready to squash any trouble and trouble makers at a moments notice. They didn't want to have to deal with riots or a war.

Unfortunately, Jesus would have been viewed by the Romans as one of the troublemakers and he (although there is no evidence of him) was quickly killed, most likely without all the rigamarole that is in the bible. That was the Roman way.

You are attempting to take a tall tale and turn it into something else. Why? Why the need to reinvent  a story in order to make it go down easy, so that it can be believed to be an actual event? It didn't happen the way it was written because the writing is fiction, rigamarole, and so you seem to have a need to suggest a way for it to have actually taken place. Why? Why can't the story remain as the fiction that it appears to be?

Hello? All I was giving was the likeliest scenario based upon historical accounts of from that place and era. This thread is named "Historical Jesus."

Heretic, yes your vending machine is a nice story.

Both you and the other party have learned something from each other.

This 'believe in Jesus and you shall be saved' is a short version of the message.

You will never catch a plane to Paris unless you really believe that Paris exists.

(Faith - a 'substance' of things not seen...)

Once you acknowledge that Paris exists, you pay the provider to get you there,  prepare for the journey, make sure you have proper clothing - is it winter is it summer. Jesus spoke of white garments. it is all provided, Paris is waiting but there are things you must do  to get there.