4 and he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall be no more; neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more: the first things are passed away. ASV
(Revelation 21:3-4) 3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”
In the promised new heavens and new earth, mankind is promised to see the end of death.
There has never been death in heaven. Mourning, outrcy, tears, pain, death, these have been the experience of mankind on earth, not the experience of those who dwell in heaven.
Therefore, mourning, outcry, pain, must pass away, from where they have actually existed, here on the earth.
The teaching that the destiny of mankind in general is to go to heaven is false.
By God's grace, quite properly termed his 'undeserved kindness,' and made possible by the atoning sacrifice of his Son, the hope of the vast majority of mankind is everlasting life on this 'new earth' from which pain, outcry, etc. have passed away.
“People are not disturbed by things, but by the views they take of them.” ― Epictetus
Life is like photography, you need a clear lens, and the picture you get depends on what you focus on.
Attaching to (choosing not to let go of) your own painful interpretations of events, ideas, people, etc. results in 'self-created suffering.'
Anger stems from irrational beliefs about others, anxiety stems from irrational beliefs about yourself.--- http://www.amazon.com/The-Brain-Mechanic-Maximize-Emotional/product-reviews/0757315569/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1
Personally, I find the prospect of being "me" in an endless time warp both boring and depressing. Once around in this bag of bones has been quite enough, thank you.
But I do have a serious question about life in this earthly paradise. Will we always be at whatever age we had attained when we died, or will we continue to age? Will some of us be children and some of us their grandparents forever and ever, or will therebe some choice in the matter?
Adam and Eve only aged and died, because they sinned.
Had they not sinned, they would not have been subject to death, and though they gained chronological years, their bodies would have not broken down and eventually died.
The purpose of the 'new heavens and new earth' is to restore what was lost, human perfection, no more death, pain, etc.
It would seem that 'adulthood' would be the reasonable state at which to 'remain' as Adam and Eve were adults.
“People are not disturbed by things, but by the views they take of them.” ― Epictetus
Life is like photography, you need a clear lens, and the picture you get depends on what you focus on.
Attaching to (choosing not to let go of) your own painful interpretations of events, ideas, people, etc. results in 'self-created suffering.'
Anger stems from irrational beliefs about others, anxiety stems from irrational beliefs about yourself.--- http://www.amazon.com/The-Brain-Mechanic-Maximize-Emotional/product-reviews/0757315569/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1
Personally, I find the prospect of being "me" in an endless time warp both boring and depressing. Once around in this bag of bones has been quite enough, thank you.
But I do have a serious question about life in this earthly paradise. Will we always be at whatever age we had attained when we died, or will we continue to age? Will some of us be children and some of us their grandparents forever and ever, or will therebe some choice in the matter?
Cherubino - Hi! Indeed in our imperfect bodies, I understand your post. However, our bodies will attain to perfection - to God's original purpose - which will never be boring!
Just making billions of new friends, perhaps 10 or so per year - will be one of my favorite things to look forward to.
Another is scientific discovery - we will never cease to learn more - even about our universe and perhaps many other universes!
As the Scripture states:
(Ecclesiastes 3:10-11) 10 I have seen the occupation that God has given to the sons of mankind in which to be occupied. 11 Everything he has made pretty in its time. Even time indefinite he has put in their heart, that mankind may never find out the work that the [true] God has made from the start to the finish.
Time indefinite is the Hebrew Ohlam, meaning hidden or concealed time. Including forever or eternity as definitions since the word applies to any time period whose end or beginning is unknown - and eternity has no end.
Now, we will never find out all of God's works from start to finish - but we may find out all of God's works accomplished to this point in time - perhaps by some quintillion years from now. However, God continues to work and accomplish - so we will never know all of God's works from start to finish!
Some find the fact that we will never know it all depressing - but most scientists are very happy with the constant joy of new discoveries! As am I, btw!
On your question - No, we will only age to the point Adam and Eve were when created - i.e. not in years, of course - years will continue and time will continue.
As the Bible teaches:
(Isaiah 65:22-24) . . .. For like the days of a tree will the days of my people be; and the work of their own hands my chosen ones will use to the full. 23 They will not toil for nothing, nor will they bring to birth for disturbance; because they are the offspring made up of the blessed ones of Jehovah, and their descendants with them. 24 And it will actually occur that before they call out I myself shall answer; while they are yet speaking, I myself shall hear.
(Job 33:24-25) . . . Then he favors him and says, ‘Let him off from going down into the pit! I have found a ransom! 25 Let his flesh become fresher than in youth; Let him return to the days of his youthful vigor.’
(Psalm 145:14-20) . . .Jehovah is giving support to all who are falling, And is raising up all who are bowed down. ע [ʽA′yin] 15 To you the eyes of all look hopefully, And you are giving them their food in its season. פ [Peʼ] 16 You are opening your hand And satisfying the desire of every living thing. צ [Tsa‧dheh′] 17 Jehovah is righteous in all his ways And loyal in all his works. ק [Qohph] 18 Jehovah is near to all those calling upon him, To all those who call upon him in trueness. ר [Rehsh] 19 The desire of those fearing him he will perform, And their cry for help he will hear, and he will save them. ש [Shin] 20 Jehovah is guarding all those loving him,. . .
As Jehovah will satisfy all desires - including of course the desire to not be bored - earth will truly be a paradise!
Please note, btw, that those with bad desires will either be purified or not be there! See the end of Ps. 145:20.
Adam and Eve only aged and died, because they sinned.
Had they not sinned, they would not have been subject to death, and though they gained chronological years, their bodies would have not broken down and eventually died.
The purpose of the 'new heavens and new earth' is to restore what was lost, human perfection, no more death, pain, etc.
It would seem that 'adulthood' would be the reasonable state at which to 'remain' as Adam and Eve were adults.
Hi goodtobehome! Yes, truly our prayers for God's will to be done on earth as in heaven will be answered!
Your post is concise - and I might add the simple question:
Where would Adam and Eve be today had they not sinned but partook of the tree of life - and what age would they now be?
Thank you, Newtonian, and it is very good to see you.
I also look forward to enjoying the one of the aspects of human life, the ability to use creative effort. I am forever making this or that, whether with fabric or yarn or paint, and I look forward to having the time to devote to all of my pursuits.
I think the resurrection period will be unparalled as to satisfying endeavor, it will joyful not only to welcome back the dead, but to explain to them, where they have found themselves!
It is hard to envision a world without pain, but this IS what we are promised.
“People are not disturbed by things, but by the views they take of them.” ― Epictetus
Life is like photography, you need a clear lens, and the picture you get depends on what you focus on.
Attaching to (choosing not to let go of) your own painful interpretations of events, ideas, people, etc. results in 'self-created suffering.'
Anger stems from irrational beliefs about others, anxiety stems from irrational beliefs about yourself.--- http://www.amazon.com/The-Brain-Mechanic-Maximize-Emotional/product-reviews/0757315569/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1
Adam and Eve only aged and died, because they sinned.
Had they not sinned, they would not have been subject to death, and though they gained chronological years, their bodies would have not broken down and eventually died.
The purpose of the 'new heavens and new earth' is to restore what was lost, human perfection, no more death, pain, etc.
It would seem that 'adulthood' would be the reasonable state at which to 'remain' as Adam and Eve were adults.
But I thrive on adversity, even when I'm complaining about it. The prospect of living a trouble and pain free life on Easy Street as a dead-from-the-neck-up thirtysomething holds no appeal whatsoever.
More scriptures on the promise of earthly paradise conditions
(Psalm 37:10-11) 10 And just a little while longer, and the wicked one will be no more; And you will certainly give attention to his place, and he will not be. 11 But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth, And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.
We recognize these words, as Jesus quoted from them.
(Matthew 5:5) 5 “Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth.
'exquisite delight' sounds rather lovely, not dreadful, Cherubino.
“People are not disturbed by things, but by the views they take of them.” ― Epictetus
Life is like photography, you need a clear lens, and the picture you get depends on what you focus on.
Attaching to (choosing not to let go of) your own painful interpretations of events, ideas, people, etc. results in 'self-created suffering.'
Anger stems from irrational beliefs about others, anxiety stems from irrational beliefs about yourself.--- http://www.amazon.com/The-Brain-Mechanic-Maximize-Emotional/product-reviews/0757315569/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1
Adam and Eve only aged and died, because they sinned.
Had they not sinned, they would not have been subject to death, and though they gained chronological years, their bodies would have not broken down and eventually died.
The purpose of the 'new heavens and new earth' is to restore what was lost, human perfection, no more death, pain, etc.
It would seem that 'adulthood' would be the reasonable state at which to 'remain' as Adam and Eve were adults.
But I thrive on adversity, even when I'm complaining about it. The prospect of living a trouble and pain free life on Easy Street as a dead-from-the-neck-up thirtysomething holds no appeal whatsoever.
w Hi Cheruibino! I love challenges - somewhat similar - we all have different personalities, of course!
Well, Jehovah did make the garden of Eden a paradise, but he gave Adam and Eve (with the help of many children, of course) cultivate (KJV) the entire earth! (Genesis 1:28)
As a gardener I can testify that weeds are comparable to "adversity!" But what a reward if we work hard and don't give up!
I am not sure how we will survive our sun's red giant phase or later white dwarf phase - or if we will have a part in fine tuned mergers that will keep our sun in main sequence [a fine tuned merger of our sun with a brown dwarf when nearing red giant phase would return our sun to early main sequence - see Scientific American article 'When Stars collide'].
But do you really want pain with such hard work? Wouldn't you prefer the challenge overcoming various difficult problems with the actual hope of success rather than many astronomer's fatalistic approach to such questions? [Some astronomers do consider how to succeed but do not usually put together all the data, such as that our universe is not a closed system since God is stretching out the heavens (Isaiah 40:22) {cp the source of dark energy - i.e. - how dark energy is propagated} and has a purpose for all of his creations.
Actually, Jehovah's Witnesses worldwide do thrive despite many adversities - some actually peculiar to us btw!
'exquisite delight' sounds rather lovely, not dreadful, Cherubino.
I'm with Cherubino. It all sounds deathly boring.
I am not sure how we will survive our sun's red giant phase or later white dwarf phase - or if we will have a part in fine tuned mergers that will keep our sun in main sequence [a fine tuned merger of our sun with a brown dwarf when nearing red giant phase would return our sun to early main sequence - see Scientific American article 'When Stars collide'].
Here's Newt with our "eternal" sun. Ain't gonna happen kids!
