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3 years ago  ::  Feb 09, 2012 - 9:04PM #51
Bob_the_Lunatic
Posts: 3,458

Also Maine, great point about the separation issue:  It's what I call the 'My God is better than your God Complex'.  Christians call it "Manifest Destiny".


It is this doctrine that justified women as property, Africans as property, Murdering and Stealing from indians.... and wiping out so many other human beings so the Europeans could justify letters of marque and general pillaging... in the name of the Christian god.



Anyway-I agree with you:  The second you believe YOU are chosen, you cannot help but think you are above the "unchosen", which leads one to devalue them, and justify things like murder, theft, etc.



What was that quote of Abraham Lincoln's?  "What must their God think of them...." 


or something like that :)



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3 years ago  ::  Feb 09, 2012 - 9:10PM #52
mainecaptain
Posts: 21,790

Feb 9, 2012 -- 8:24PM, Jenandew7 wrote:


This is a great post.  Thank you! 


Feb 9, 2012 -- 8:14PM, mainecaptain wrote:



Please don't take what I say as disagreement, certainly not an argument, just explanation of my position. I don't consider anything separate from the divine. It is patently impossible if one actually believes in a creator god. Since that supposed creator would have created everything material and immaterial, Spiritual and non- spiritual. Good as well as evil.


This constant desire to separate the two, is  done so that those who are different can be demonsied and attacked for being different.


Now, I don't believe in a single creator. But I do believe all is part of divinity, no separation. Separation is an allusion. Since in this life it is difficult to see, in an obvious, knowledgeably way  the spiritual connection. But it is not impossible to make that connection.


It seems to me Patriarchal authority religions work hard to suppress the spiritual connection. Because not having the spiritual connection (or being unaware of it), gives human beings power and control, over other human beings.


Obviously this is just my personal take. And nearly impossible to properly convey on an internet post.




You did an excellent job of it!


A.




Thank you Smile

A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. Aristotle
Never discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Plato..
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives" Jackie Robinson
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3 years ago  ::  Feb 09, 2012 - 9:13PM #53
mainecaptain
Posts: 21,790

Feb 9, 2012 -- 9:00PM, Bob_the_Lunatic wrote:



Gee Ms. Maine, remove the gods-and it sounds like you and agree on some of the big fundamental principles (ie everything in this post).  


We might have to chat sometime.... to see how similar our beliefs are despite the Pagan/Buddhist or atheist/theist differences.  Over tea and biscuits perhaps.





Thank you, I would be honoured. :)

Feb 9, 2012 -- 9:04PM, Bob_the_Lunatic wrote:


Also Maine, great point about the separation issue:  It's what I call the 'My God is better than your God Complex'.  Christians call it "Manifest Destiny".


It is this doctrine that justified women as property, Africans as property, Murdering and Stealing from indians.... and wiping out so many other human beings so the Europeans could justify letters of marque and general pillaging... in the name of the Christian god.



Anyway-I agree with you:  The second you believe YOU are chosen, you cannot help but think you are above the "unchosen", which leads one to devalue them, and justify things like murder, theft, etc.



What was that quote of Abraham Lincoln's?  "What must their God think of them...." 


or something like that :)






Thank you here as well. That does seem to be the way it is. And yes about Abraham Lincoln idea, as well. :))

A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. Aristotle
Never discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Plato..
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives" Jackie Robinson
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3 years ago  ::  Feb 09, 2012 - 9:16PM #54
Bob_the_Lunatic
Posts: 3,458

honoured?   I didn't know you were a British!  (and sorry-all the former colonies count except America, so if you're a Kiwi, or an Aussie, or an Indian, etc. etc.... you're still a "British" to me-I'm living in the past (about 100 years to be precise)).


"you're hung up on some clown from the 60's man!!!"  -Erik the Clown, Seinfeld



Regardlesss, I look forward to our chat :)

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3 years ago  ::  Feb 09, 2012 - 9:26PM #55
mainecaptain
Posts: 21,790

Feb 9, 2012 -- 9:16PM, Bob_the_Lunatic wrote:


honoured?   I didn't know you were a British!  (and sorry-all the former colonies count except America, so if you're a Kiwi, or an Aussie, or an Indian, etc. etc.... you're still a "British" to me-I'm living in the past (about 100 years to be precise)).


"you're hung up on some clown from the 60's man!!!"  -Erik the Clown, Seinfeld



Regardlesss, I look forward to our chat :)




LOL!



I live here in the USA now, but England is where I learned to spell and speak. Laughing

A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. Aristotle
Never discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Plato..
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives" Jackie Robinson
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3 years ago  ::  Feb 09, 2012 - 9:32PM #56
Bob_the_Lunatic
Posts: 3,458

Feb 9, 2012 -- 9:26PM, mainecaptain wrote:


Feb 9, 2012 -- 9:16PM, Bob_the_Lunatic wrote:


honoured?   I didn't know you were a British!  (and sorry-all the former colonies count except America, so if you're a Kiwi, or an Aussie, or an Indian, etc. etc.... you're still a "British" to me-I'm living in the past (about 100 years to be precise)).


"you're hung up on some clown from the 60's man!!!"  -Erik the Clown, Seinfeld



Regardlesss, I look forward to our chat :)




LOL!



I live here in the USA now, but England is where I learned to spell and speak.




So not just a Captain, but a refined, cultured captain!!  I say "British" as in "There are three Britishes headed for our ship!!!!"  I always thought it sounded funny, to call them "Britishes".  Are you familiar with the story of the race to the South Pole?  It is the primary reason for my being "stuck in the past".    


I remember being in Ireland, many years ago at age 12.  (I've been there about 8 times, but never to Great Britain), and hearing some Britishes actually say "I'm going to the colonies this September". ..  And he DID mean the USA.   And I'm not that old... it was 1985 lol!!!


We all have our version of denial.  As The Dude said to Walter Sobchek:


"What the hell does ANYTHING have to do with Vietnam??????"

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3 years ago  ::  Feb 10, 2012 - 11:58AM #57
Sacrificialgoddess
Posts: 9,496

Feb 9, 2012 -- 9:26PM, mainecaptain wrote:


Feb 9, 2012 -- 9:16PM, Bob_the_Lunatic wrote:


honoured?   I didn't know you were a British!  (and sorry-all the former colonies count except America, so if you're a Kiwi, or an Aussie, or an Indian, etc. etc.... you're still a "British" to me-I'm living in the past (about 100 years to be precise)).


"you're hung up on some clown from the 60's man!!!"  -Erik the Clown, Seinfeld



Regardlesss, I look forward to our chat :)




LOL!



I live here in the USA now, but England is where I learned to spell and speak.




www.hereinmyhead.com/sounds/files/sw/032...



*Cheeky Grin*

Dark Energy. It can be found in the observable Universe. Found in ratios of 75% more than any other substance. Dark Energy. It can be found in religious extremists, in cheerleaders. To come to the conclusion that Dark signifies mean and malevolent would define 75% of the Universe as an evil force. Alternatively, to think that some cheerleaders don't have razors in their snatch is to be foolishly unarmed.

-- Tori Amos
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3 years ago  ::  Feb 10, 2012 - 3:17PM #58
mainecaptain
Posts: 21,790

Feb 10, 2012 -- 11:58AM, Sacrificialgoddess wrote:


Feb 9, 2012 -- 9:26PM, mainecaptain wrote:


Feb 9, 2012 -- 9:16PM, Bob_the_Lunatic wrote:


honoured?   I didn't know you were a British!  (and sorry-all the former colonies count except America, so if you're a Kiwi, or an Aussie, or an Indian, etc. etc.... you're still a "British" to me-I'm living in the past (about 100 years to be precise)).


"you're hung up on some clown from the 60's man!!!"  -Erik the Clown, Seinfeld



Regardlesss, I look forward to our chat :)




LOL!



I live here in the USA now, but England is where I learned to spell and speak.





www.hereinmyhead.com/sounds/files/sw/032...



*Cheeky Grin*





LOL, Tongue OutSmile

A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. Aristotle
Never discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Plato..
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives" Jackie Robinson
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3 years ago  ::  Feb 10, 2012 - 3:29PM #59
mainecaptain
Posts: 21,790

Feb 9, 2012 -- 9:32PM, Bob_the_Lunatic wrote:



So not just a Captain, but a refined, cultured captain!!  I say "British" as in "There are three Britishes headed for our ship!!!!"  I always thought it sounded funny, to call them "Britishes".  Are you familiar with the story of the race to the South Pole?  It is the primary reason for my being "stuck in the past".    


I remember being in Ireland, many years ago at age 12.  (I've been there about 8 times, but never to Great Britain), and hearing some Britishes actually say "I'm going to the colonies this September". ..  And he DID mean the USA.   And I'm not that old... it was 1985 lol!!!


We all have our version of denial.  As The Dude said to Walter Sobchek:


"What the hell does ANYTHING have to do with Vietnam??????"




LOL, I don't know how cultured I am, but yes British.  Yes I am some what familar with that story. :)



Funny I have always wanted to go to Ireland, Not yet, perhaps in the future.

A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. Aristotle
Never discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Plato..
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives" Jackie Robinson
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3 years ago  ::  Feb 11, 2012 - 4:14PM #60
LeahOne
Posts: 16,463

Feb 9, 2012 -- 9:04PM, Bob_the_Lunatic wrote:


Also Maine, great point about the separation issue:  It's what I call the 'My God is better than your God Complex'.  Christians call it "Manifest Destiny".


It is this doctrine that justified women as property, Africans as property, Murdering and Stealing from indians.... and wiping out so many other human beings so the Europeans could justify letters of marque and general pillaging... in the name of the Christian god.



Anyway-I agree with you:  The second you believe YOU are chosen, you cannot help but think you are above the "unchosen", which leads one to devalue them, and justify things like murder, theft, etc.



What was that quote of Abraham Lincoln's?  "What must their God think of them...." 


or something like that :)





OK, Bob - I couldn't help but flit in to make the requisite comment here, which I'm certain a great many posters have already figured out.


Your description as above has nothing to do with the use of 'chosen' by Jewish people:  our 'chosen-ness' is not like being 'elect' or OSAS. 


Please excuse the interruption:  I just find that far too often people assume that whatever is in Christianity, is also in Judaism.   : ))


 

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