To me it's pretty simple:

Atheism means "without belief in god/s", it's a pretty simple concept.

Buddhist practice is about awakening to the true self, seeking reality, not seeking a god.

One is religion, one is philosophy.  One typically cares about death, one typically cares about life.  They are opposites to me at the fundamental level.

Further-when Buddhist gods are mentioned, mostly as left overs from brahmanism, they are allegorical.  For example, they remind me of Aesop's fables.  Take the fable about the frog that gives a scorpion a ride across the river.... did this really happen?  Did some frog actually have a discussion and negotiate a deal with a scorpion and give him a ride, only to be stung and killed halfway across?  No, the story is about the inescapability of one's nature.  Stories about Buddhist gods are the same thing-allegories to make a point.  

Your points are also true-there is no indication that I'm aware of in any sutra-that the point here is to seek any god.  For someone to make that claim and then further-claim it is to seek some particular god of the West, like Jesus, Allah, Yahweh, whatever-is ridiculous.  It is so far beyond a stretch, one can only assume insanity of some sort.

I'm aware that some sects WORSHIP a being, a buddha, several buddhas, buddhas and bodhisattvas, huge pantheons of various "entities"... which means one could draw a parallel between such a sect and perhaps Catholicism... .but there's still that problem of some central "all powerful" god always missing in Buddhism-no matter how "theist" the sect may seem.  From my perspective, because they have missed the point-and worship an external entity... they have "reverted to the views of non-Buddhists."

Ultimately, I agree with you-most Buddhist sects are clearly atheist-there is no focus on any god or gods, but on the dharma.  What we are victims of here is wishful thinking on the part of those who are not interested in Buddhism, but rather want everything to get along-and be the same, when it is simply not the same. 

Someone made a decent argument that Buddhism is "non-theist".  But I feel it is atheist.  Does it have a god belief or not?  No, it does not:  Therefore it is LACKING or WITHOUT a god belief and thus accurately described as "atheist".

"atheist" is as much an adjective as it is a noun.  So I can describe myself as "an atheist Buddhist", although I would suspect that the educated might find the adjective redundant.  Either way, one could describe Buddhism as an "atheist faith", which is not redundant as faith can be with or without a god, most are with, Buddhism is without.

How can you mold anything into atheism?  It has NO beliefs-just one disbelief.

So you can describe something as atheist, or theist-both are valid adjectives.

For example-do you think my cat is an atheist or a theist-or do you think I would ask such a thing to mold an objetive concept into something else?  Obviously my cat is an atheist cat, again redundant-but makes my point about Buddhism.

And the claim is beyond ironic-who here actually tries to mold Buddhism into something it is not?  It is completely the opposite of Abrahamic faiths, yet you actually try to suggest that Buddha taught about your god.   There is some molding going on for sure, but there is no molding needed to make the argument that Buddhism is "atheistic". 

That would be like saying  I was "Molding sugar into captain crunch" -IT'S ALREADY THERE!!

LOL

Feb 7, 2012 -- 8:12PM, Aka_me wrote:

Feb 7, 2012 -- 8:08PM, Bob_the_Lunatic wrote:

There is some molding going on for sure, but there is no molding needed to make the argument that Buddhism is "atheistic".

let's see if the Buddhists here who disagree have the intellectual honesty to speak up.

Well, so far the Buddhists' vote is

2 votes YES

0 votes NO

take any definition of atheism you like, and then put it together with

point 1

Buddhism defines devas and devas qualify as deities

point 2

In many ways they are similar to the ancient Olympian gods of Greece or the Aesir of Teutonic myths.

Nichiren also frequently addressed prayers to the gods and encouraged his followers to do so as well, but always in the context of an overarching faith in the Lotus Sutra.

to see if any substance can be produced addressing EITHER of these points.