I suppose Billys too old these days to actually do the preaching in his 90s? Well my dad turned it on to the religious stationg the other day and we got the Franklin and Billy graham crusade japan from last year.
I put a thread up here 5 years back criticizing Billy Graham about him rusading everywhere msisionizing everywhere not accepting other religions. Welle evry person on here jumped down my back and defended him and also claimed that hes not a hater that hes accepting of other religions and just sharing his faith and many even NON Christians got on here defended him after seeing how loved he was back in my old psycho days even I backed down out of that one and got nice to everyone and said ok well whatever.
I TAKE IT BACK EVERYTHING THE POSTERS PUT UP HERE WAS AN ABSOLUTE LIE. What I saw on that special was the crusade preaching hate. I qoute" 99 percent of Japan is in NON Christian religions" as they said that the cameras wnet inside of several Buddhist Temples and they said" Its sad and were just seeking to preach Jesus and these peopel need JEZUS" theyw ent ona nd on about how the poor Buddhists needed Jesus.
They made it perfectly clear infact their exact words were to Missionize and change the country and convert them into Christianity, they want to convert them away from Buddhists, I ask when Billy Graham admits and proudly claims his hate how much clearer can it get? Ive heard Billy say these things before too he makes it perfectly clear he is out to get people converted into Christianity and out of non Christian religions, those are his exact words,Missiinizing and Evangelizing to non Christian religions to convert them away his exact words.
Everything that was said to me here at beliefnet CD was a lie, tehre is NOTHING open and accepting about that.
Thiose dead ritualistic poor patheitc devil nonChristian Buddhists stuck in their dead ritual religion they dieing for Jesus, according to the crusade their in so much trouble and so poor and pathetic theyre just practically on their knees begging for help theyre so ignorant and pathetic and helpless those poor poor pathetic Japanese people EWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
It is easy to heap scorn on proselytizers who openly promote hatred. And there is hatred. As recently as the 1980s, someone got a standing ovation at a meeting of the Southern Baptist Convention for declaring that God does not hear the prayers of Jews.
But even if overt hatred is not in view and actually not in the heart and mind of the proselytizer, there is an intrinsically insulting message in telling people that their faith is in vain if they are not Christians, that they are damned, that they need to be saved and God will not save them unless and until they become Christians. Even if the proselytizer sincerely feels he/she is saying these things out of love, it is offensive.
It has been claimed that proselytizing is no different from telling a sick person to see a doctor; so if you are a sinner and therefore spiritually sick, you need to make an appointment with Jesus. Not so. Medical illness can be objectively demonstrated. Spiritual "sickness" is different, and I suspect there is no such thing; there is only spiritual wakefulness and spiritual coma. I think individuals and society benefit when people awaken from spiritual coma, and maybe Jesus is the way that some people can achieve that; but others manage it quite well, thank you, without Christian salvation.
There may also be resentment at the fact that the proselytizer represents a religion that does not stand out like a light unto the world in terms of exemplary moral-ethical behavior. It would be different if the Christian proselytizer's message came from a demonstrably superior form of faith, but it does not.
Graham pere et fils do not impress me as exemplars of anything. Much has been made of the huge numbers of people they have "brought to Christ." To me, counting the numbers of people who come forward at revival meetings to get dunked and pronounced "saved" seems like a fairly cheap measure of grace.
I prayed for deliverance from the hard world of facts and logic to the happy land where fantasies and prejudices reign. But God spake unto me, saying, "No, keep telling the truth," and to that end afflicted me with severe Trenchant Mouth. So I'm sorry for making cutting remarks, but it's the will of God.
Graham pere et fils do not impress me as exemplars of anything. Much has been made of the huge numbers of people they have "brought to Christ." To me, counting the numbers of people who come forward at revival meetings to get dunked and pronounced "saved" seems like a fairly cheap measure of grace
Good point! I met a guy at AA one time who said hed been to over 30 BG Crusade and had walked the aisled and accepted Jesus at every one ,when asked if he went to church after that he replied no. Yea well, they get excited theres a big huge Christian concert i saw that its almost like being at a rock concert they go crazy in the lobby areas before hand its like a rock concert its a high they get a high off it.Its a good time!
FYI according to the Frankling and BG site they boasted about having over 400 come to Christ at the crusade in Japan. ONLY 400 are you kidding Japan has over 120 million people!I guess those poor Buddhists didnt have any interest in getting Jezus!
It is easy to heap scorn on proselytizers who openly promote hatred. And there is hatred. As recently as the 1980s, someone got a standing ovation at a meeting of the Southern Baptist Convention for declaring that God does not hear the prayers of Jews.
But even if overt hatred is not in view and actually not in the heart and mind of the proselytizer, there is an intrinsically insulting message in telling people that their faith is in vain if they are not Christians, that they are damned, that they need to be saved and God will not save them unless and until they become Christians. Even if the proselytizer sincerely feels he/she is saying these things out of love, it is offensive.
That's really odd, considering that people are neither forced to listen to their message nor believe it. People are free not to listen or to disbelieve the message.
It's like saying it's offensive for Obama (or any politician) to share his beliefs on what is best for the country in a public setting… since people already have their beliefs about what is best for the country. It's not offensive... because people are free not to listen and to disagree.
That's really odd, considering that people are neither forced to listen to their message nor believe it. People are free not to listen or to disbelieve the message.
It's like saying it's offensive for Obama (or any politician) to share his beliefs on what is best for the country in a public setting… since people already have their beliefs about what is best for the country. It's not offensive... because people are free not to listen and to disagree
Thats how it is with 100 percent of every mission that goes out it doesnt make it right. Forcing someone to listen against their will would be kidnap and put them in the dangerous cult camp.Nobody does that.
Thats not the question the fact is that they are proselytizing and making it their goal and mission to save people and get them out of their religions to convert to Christianity they dont force them but thats their goal to convert them away, and all that means is that Budhism is not acceptable to them and NO THEY ARE NOT UNIVERSAL. So everything you guys told me about BG being open and accepting and Universal of other religions is a lie. Universal people dont go out to Missionize and Evangelize and convert others away from their own religion they dont make it a mission to rid the planet of Budhism......................that fact makes it hate,it doesnt matter that theyre not forced against their wills
It is easy to heap scorn on proselytizers who openly promote hatred. And there is hatred. As recently as the 1980s, someone got a standing ovation at a meeting of the Southern Baptist Convention for declaring that God does not hear the prayers of Jews.
But even if overt hatred is not in view and actually not in the heart and mind of the proselytizer, there is an intrinsically insulting message in telling people that their faith is in vain if they are not Christians, that they are damned, that they need to be saved and God will not save them unless and until they become Christians. Even if the proselytizer sincerely feels he/she is saying these things out of love, it is offensive.
That's really odd, considering that people are neither forced to listen to their message nor believe it. People are free not to listen or to disbelieve the message.
It's like saying it's offensive for Obama (or any politician) to share his beliefs on what is best for the country in a public setting… since people already have their beliefs about what is best for the country. It's not offensive... because people are free not to listen and to disagree.
That's true, except for one thing. Politicians usually do not make claims of speaking for God. I can sneer at politicians for speaking blather, but no one thinks they are working under the orders of God. Proselytizers pose as people who have the One True Faith, the only way of reaching God, and the arrogance of that stance is irritating. It is not merely that I disagree with their theology, for that I could just roll my eyes and walk past -- as I do when I hear politicians' blather.
I would have no objections at all if the proselytizer's message went like this: "We have found a way to God. It works in our lives, and we invite you to learn about it and share our faith with us. But if you prefer a different religion or no religion, that's fine, too. God doesn't care about the labels we wear." But that is not the message. The message is, "Look, you may be a nice person, and I'm sure you'd be a good neighbor...but right now, your life is a stinking cesspool of sin, and you can't be with God in that state. So unless you get washed clean by the blood of Jesus, you're damned."
Those may not be the words spoken, but that is the unmistakable meaning of the words.
I prayed for deliverance from the hard world of facts and logic to the happy land where fantasies and prejudices reign. But God spake unto me, saying, "No, keep telling the truth," and to that end afflicted me with severe Trenchant Mouth. So I'm sorry for making cutting remarks, but it's the will of God.
Christians, Catholic and Protestant, have tried for hundreds of years to convert the Japanese people to Christianity, and they have only been somewhat successful. The Japanese, first of all, have a very different concept of deity and the supernatural from what is typical among Westerners. It is difficult to even attempt to compare Shintoism to various forms of European paganism. In addition, the Japanese people have traditionally been multireligious in practice. That is, Shintoism has been the religion that deals with everyday concerns (marriages, childbirth, natural disasters such as typhoons, the seasons, agriculture, etc.) while Buddhism has been the religion that deals with transcendence, the problem of suffering, death, mortuary and funeral rituals, and rebirth.
At the same time, post-World War II Japan is a secular nation. In my experience, it is not uncommon for Japanese people to participate in Buddhist and Shinto rituals yet refer to themselves as atheists if an American asks them what their religion is. Likewise, unless a person is elderly, both children and adults do not really have the time or the luxury to spend every Sunday morning at a Christian church. In addition (again based on my experience), some Japanese people may be interested in Christianity, but this interest is connected to the fact that they consider Christianity to be "the American religion," and so learning something about it is akin to learning English. Plus, some of them consider Christian weddings to be more contemporary and modern than traditional Shinto weddings, and so their interest is connected to such issues as fashion (i.e., white wedding dresses).
There are committed Christians in Japan, but based on my experiences with them and their congregations, their Christianty remains very Japanese in nature, even retaining echoes of Shintoism and Buddhism (in the form of rituals, prayers, holidays, etc.). The Grahams may think they are converting hundreds of Japanese people to Christianity at their crusades, but more than likely, that is not the case.
The message is, "Look, you may be a nice person, and I'm sure you'd be a good neighbor...but right now, your life is a stinking cesspool of sin, and you can't be with God in that state. So unless you get washed clean by the blood of Jesus, you're damned."
And if it's true, it's a good thing that people are passing it on. Right? At least people are getting the chance to hear it and come to their own conclusion.
Why would you discourage people from sharing that message... when they could be right?
Christians, Catholic and Protestant, have tried for hundreds of years to convert the Japanese people to Christianity, and they have only been somewhat successful. The Japanese, first of all, have a very different concept of deity and the supernatural from what is typical among Westerners. It is difficult to even attempt to compare Shintoism to various forms of European paganism. In addition, the Japanese people have traditionally been multireligious in practice. That is, Shintoism has been the religion that deals with everyday concerns (marriages, childbirth, natural disasters such as typhoons, the seasons, agriculture, etc.) while Buddhism has been the religion that deals with transcendence, the problem of suffering, death, mortuary and funeral rituals, and rebirth.
At the same time, post-World War II Japan is a secular nation. In my experience, it is not uncommon for Japanese people to participate in Buddhist and Shinto rituals yet refer to themselves as atheists if an American asks them what their religion is. Likewise, unless a person is elderly, both children and adults do not really have the time or the luxury to spend every Sunday morning at a Christian church. In addition (again based on my experience), some Japanese people may be interested in Christianity, but this interest is connected to the fact that they consider Christianity to be "the American religion," and so learning something about it is akin to learning English. Plus, some of them consider Christian weddings to be more contemporary and modern than traditional Shinto weddings, and so their interest is connected to such issues as fashion (i.e., white wedding dresses).
There are committed Christians in Japan, but based on my experiences with them and their congregations, their Christianty remains very Japanese in nature, even retaining echoes of Shintoism and Buddhism (in the form of rituals, prayers, holidays, etc.). The Grahams may think they are converting hundreds of Japanese people to Christianity at their crusades, but more than likely, that is not the case.
Thanks for clearing that up! Yes they are very very interesting I read about them at Wiki today and saw some of what you said there as well. Its like a half of 1 percent claim Christianity. But 30 thousand went to the crusade and 400 saved to me 400 at a crusade like that is a bismal failure anyways.
