The following excerpt from H. Odhner's "Divine Allegory" addresses the concept that there is an "inner meaning" hidden in the literal sense of the Word of God. What do you think?
DIVINE ALLEGORY "Odhner, Hugo Lj." 1954 p. 2
THE DIVINE ALLEGORY
Introduction
It is widely believed among Christians that the holy Bible is Divinely inspired and worthy to be called the Word of God. But if one asks wherein its holiness lies or what makes it different from other religions books, few can give any adequate answer. On the surface, or in its literal sense, the Bible is a history of men and nations, giving intimate glimpses of domestic bliss and of human folly, high-lights of moral wisdom and of tender faith, as well as examples of the lowest depravity to which men can sink. If we reflect we must admit that if God is the real Author of the Bible, His infinite wisdom must be present in the whole and in every part, even where the subject matter ostensibly is confined to wars between nations or the frank outpourings of human emotions of fear or revenge.
And how could this be, unless the story of the Biblical nations were in fact a parable intended to teach a wisdom far beyond the literal meaning of the words spoken to the prophets and the apostles? If the Bible be indeed the Word of God, it must contain a substratum of spiritual teachings so inexhaustible and profound that it can enlighten and inspire all generations to come.
That such a depth of truth is indeed present in the history and rituals of the Jews has sometimes been suspected by earnest students of Scripture. Paul warned that "the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life" (2 Cor. 3:6) and found an allegorical meaning in the story of Abraham's two sons (Gal. 4:22-31). He showed that the priests ministering in the tabernacle had served "as an example and shadow of heavenly things" (Hebr. 8, 9).
Paul glimpsed these things only in part, as "in an enigma" or as "through a glass, darkly". But the rediscovery of the ancient knowledge of "correspondences", now presented clearly in the theological Writings of Emanuel Swedenborg, makes it possible to demonstrate to any open-minded Christian that the story of the lands and peoples of the Bible is truly a Divine allegory - a continuous thread of spiritual teachings which are concealed within the language of consistent symbols and parables and representations: teachings about the nature and eternal destiny of the soul, about the laws of the regeneration of man's spirit, and about the modes whereby God our Creator becomes the Lord our Redeemer.
* * *
The Word, as it exists on earth, is the eternal foundation of the wisdom of the heavens. In it Divine truth is finally crystallized in its last or ultimate form. It was given as a mirror for all possible states of human life, in which we may see the relations of these states in their connection and contrast, and see their progressions as the angels see them, with the hope that we may thus be consociated with heaven.
Even a simple reading of the Sacred Scripture begins to accomplish these ends. For the Word - in its most obvious meaning - is clearly an account of how the Lord the Creator and Savior guided the human race toward an eventual salvation. Aside from its moral philosophy, which even the scoffer admires, it is a study of the ways of God with man and a record of man's fickle responses.
But in the New Church, we are promised, "every Divine truth of the Word in the sense of the letter with the men of that Church is translucent from the Divine truth in the spiritual sense" (AR 911). The spiritual sense is disclosed in the Writings, in order that the literal sense of the Word may become more and more a mirror of the Lord and of His Divine order.
That people who NEED to find "divine allegory" in a collection of ancient fables in order find either/or purpose and morality are a sad lot indeed.
Ultimately, this attitude is both anti-human and insulting. It is anti-human in that all but states explicitly that we are incapable of moral behavior unless presented with threats and hell and hope of paradise.
And that implication is insulting to every reasoning being who ever lived. If such were indeed the case then we would be no better than microbes. And none us ever in the history of the human species would ever have said or done anything worthy of note.
The World is divided into armed camps ready to commit genocide just because we can't agree on whose fairy tales to believe. The belief in supernatural religion will kill us all if we don't outgrow it.
When I first read "End of Faith" I thought Sam went too far. The more I read and listen to these "believers" the more I wonder if maybe he wasn't right after all.
That people who NEED to find "divine allegory" in a collection of ancient fables in order find either/or purpose and morality are a sad lot indeed.
Ultimately, this attitude is both anti-human and insulting. It is anti-human in that all but states explicitly that we are incapable of moral behavior unless presented with threats and hell and hope of paradise.
And that implication is insulting to every reasoning being who ever lived. If such were indeed the case then we would be no better than microbes. And none us ever in the history of the human species would ever have said or done anything worthy of note.
Ah, I think I see some confusion here! If it is allegory, then it is not, in fact, literal! *winks*
Let's say, for example that hell and Satan are allegory! May I suggest that this life in this world since Adam is to be in hell--or, in the ancient belief hell is defined as to be apart (or separated) from God. Ergo, the impetus to sin is the fear of hunger, of sickness, of fire and flood and the insecurities of this world. It is lack of faith (trust) in God. I am basing that on tradition! And what about Satan? Could Satan be the "natural man", the sin that possesses us (or we are in bondage to)? Can't you see that if we consider Satan or demons to be other than ourselves, the worst they can do is tempt us? But we do not need tempting--do we? We can find sufficient temptation within ourselves without any help from any outside force.
Try thinking allegory. To maintain it in its literal sense the way Fundamentalists insist we should do--a thing not done before 1910-12--is actually to deny God's message in the "Word of God." How can you speak of spiritual mysteries that are beyond human language that was formed to express our experience of this world. How can we speak of things we can't comprehend in the language of Spirit? Symbolism is the language of Spirit.
That people who NEED to find "divine allegory" in a collection of ancient fables in order find either/or purpose and morality are a sad lot indeed.
I asked for your thoughts and you gave them, thank you. However, tacking on an insult wasn't necessary.
Ultimately, this attitude is both anti-human and insulting.
Judging by your favorite quote, you are skeptical but open to the idea that a deity may exist. If this deity is the source of our humanity, this "attitude" as you call it is not anti-human or insulting.
It is anti-human in that all but states explicitly that we are incapable of moral behavior unless presented with threats and hell and hope of paradise.
Some seem to believe this, I do not. I believe that we have been endowed with the ability to behave morally. I also believe that good behavior is its own reward since we will be grouped together with those who have chosen to behave well and that bad behavior is its own punishment by virtue of being among those who have chosen to behave badly. IOW, I don't believe that God is angry and wants to punish those who behave badly, nor does He hope to persuade us to behave well with promises of reward. He just wants us to choose, observe the consequences and make wise adjustments if necessary, iow, choose good for good's sake. We will be treated well by those we live with and God or badly by those among whom we live. I don't believe that God treats anyone badly.
And that implication is insulting to every reasoning being who ever lived. If such were indeed the case then we would be no better than microbes. And none us ever in the history of the human species would ever have said or done anything worthy of note.
To those who believe in a Creator/Sustainer from whom we draw life and virtue, the idea that we cannot say or do anything worthy of note from ourselves is not insulting. We see ourselves as receptacles of God's life and virtue, thus in an intimate relationship with Him.
That people who NEED to find "divine allegory" in a collection of ancient fables in order find either/or purpose and morality are a sad lot indeed.
I asked for your thoughts and you gave them, thank you. However, tacking on an insult wasn't necessary.
A man's ethical behaviour should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death.
A. Einstein.
I suppose like Grocho, you take comfort in being insulted by the best.
The World is divided into armed camps ready to commit genocide just because we can't agree on whose fairy tales to believe. The belief in supernatural religion will kill us all if we don't outgrow it.
When I first read "End of Faith" I thought Sam went too far. The more I read and listen to these "believers" the more I wonder if maybe he wasn't right after all.
That people who NEED to find "divine allegory" in a collection of ancient fables in order find either/or purpose and morality are a sad lot indeed.
I asked for your thoughts and you gave them, thank you. However, tacking on an insult wasn't necessary.
A man's ethical behaviour should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death.
A. Einstein.
I suppose like Grocho, you take comfort in being insulted by the best.
I am not insulted in the least by your quote of Einstein and I can tell that you did not read my last post.
"We see ourselves as receptacles of God's life and virtue, thus in an intimate relationship with Him. "
Ummmn, "receptacles" as in spitoon or someting more intimate?
I have no desire to be anything's "receptacle" no matter what I am being asked to hold. To regard one’s self as such is demeaning. To regard humanity in that way is insulting to humanity. IF we have any significanance at all, anything that separates us from the microbes it is the ability make our OWN decisions. And the willingness to live with the consequences no matter what. To make our OWN lives in whatever manner we see fit come what may.
To suggest that we are just the reflection of some invisible fairy god-father, unfit even worthless on our own is – insulting to any normal intelligence.
But I have noticed that among the “faithful” such an insult doesn’t carry much weight.
Moore’s the pity.
The World is divided into armed camps ready to commit genocide just because we can't agree on whose fairy tales to believe. The belief in supernatural religion will kill us all if we don't outgrow it.
When I first read "End of Faith" I thought Sam went too far. The more I read and listen to these "believers" the more I wonder if maybe he wasn't right after all.
"Ah, I think I see some confusion here! If it is allegory, then it is not, in fact, literal! *winks*"
No, I understand the distinction but I don't regard it as significant.
Whether this is real event or a morality tale, it is still looking OURSIDE ourselves and the OUTSIDE the real world for "guidance." And to engage in such is at least tacitly, an admission that one NEEDS to look outside for such guidance.
THAT is the position I reject.
If we cannot get it on our own, no help needed nor wanted then we are indeed a sorry lot and evolution ought to start over because this try was a failure.
The World is divided into armed camps ready to commit genocide just because we can't agree on whose fairy tales to believe. The belief in supernatural religion will kill us all if we don't outgrow it.
When I first read "End of Faith" I thought Sam went too far. The more I read and listen to these "believers" the more I wonder if maybe he wasn't right after all.
The following excerpt from H. Odhner's "Divine Allegory" addresses the concept that there is an "inner meaning" hidden in the literal sense of the Word of God. What do you think?
I think that if you want to communicate vital information you don't do it by means of an allegory. Imagine a whole First Aid course taught completely in allegory and another in precise language with explicit instructions.
Which do you think would be better?
Jesus had two dads, and he turned out alright.~ Andy Gussert
“Feminism has fought no wars. It has killed no opponents. It has set up no concentration camps, starved no enemies, practiced no cruelties. Its battles have been for education, for the vote, for better working conditions…for safety on the streets…for child care, for social welfare…for rape crisis centers, women’s refuges, reforms in the law.
If someone says, “Oh, I’m not a feminist,” I ask, “Why, what’s your problem?”
The following excerpt from H. Odhner's "Divine Allegory" addresses the concept that there is an "inner meaning" hidden in the literal sense of the Word of God. What do you think?
I think that if you want to communicate vital information you don't do it by means of an allegory. Imagine a whole First Aid course taught completely in allegory and another in precise language with explicit instructions.
Which do you think would be better?
AH, but these are "spiritual" lessons. They cannot be reduced to such mundane things as facts. They must be "experienced" to be understood.
It is NOT the words that matter, it is the "insight."
(Pardon me; I have to make a quick trip the bathroom.)
The World is divided into armed camps ready to commit genocide just because we can't agree on whose fairy tales to believe. The belief in supernatural religion will kill us all if we don't outgrow it.
When I first read "End of Faith" I thought Sam went too far. The more I read and listen to these "believers" the more I wonder if maybe he wasn't right after all.